10 Friends Every Woman Needs + Learning How to Journal with Laura Tremaine


March 20, 2023

Laura Tremaine, author of Share Your Stuff. I’ll Go First joins me today for a wonderful chat about friendship and journaling! Laura has so much great advice about how to build friendships in the modern world, how to end friendships that are no longer serving you, and how to create a meaningful journaling practice.  

Laura’s new book The Life Council – 10 Friends Every Woman Needs hits the shelves on April 4th.  Grab your copy here:  https://amzn.to/4016TE4  (affiliated link)

Share Your Stuff, I’ll Go First – https://amzn.to/3LCx5R1 (affiliated link)

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Speaker 1 (00:04):

Hi, welcome to the Sober Mom Life podcast. I’m your host Suzanne of my kind of suite and the sober mom life on Instagram. If you are a mama who has questioned your relationship with alcohol at times, if you’re wondering if maybe it’s making motherhood harder, this is for you. I will be having candid, honest, funny conversations with other moms who have also thought, Hmm, maybe motherhood is better without alcohol. Is it possible we’ll chat and we’ll talk about all things sobriety and how we’ve found freedom in sobriety. I don’t consider myself an alcoholic. You don’t have to either. Maybe life is brighter without alcohol. I hope you will join us on this journey and I’m so excited to get started.

Hello, welcome back. Happy Monday. I hope everybody had a good weekend. I am so excited for today’s episode. Laura Tremaine is just an overall badass. She’s a mom, she’s a writer, she’s a podcaster. I read her first book, share Your Stuff. I’ll Go first. I read that a few years ago when it came out, I fell in love with it and I fell in love with her. She is so open and vulnerable and relatable and funny. She also has a podcast, 10 Things To Tell You, which I love. In her new book, the Life Council, 10 Friends, every Woman Needs Comes Out April 4th, pre-Order it. Now, all of the links to all of her things are in the show notes. We talk a lot about friendship in this episode and we talk about making women friends. I think that can be hard and Laura is as I call her a friendship advocate because that’s what her first book is really, you know, my best friend and I started doing it and, and we’ve known each other for 40 years, over 40 years, and there are things in there that it takes your friendship to a deeper level.

It’s great for journaling. We also talk about journaling. That’s actually why I asked Laura to come on the podcast because she had a course journaling for grownups and I think journaling can be so intimidating and overwhelming and like how do we journal? I talk a lot about it as a sobriety tool, but like how, like can someone please tell me how to journal? And Laura does, she really blows my mind with some simple tips and tricks in this episode that will definitely help you in your journaling journey. That sounds kind of corny, a journaling journey, but hey, we’re all on it. You will love this. You will love this episode. You will love Laura. Thank you so much for listening. Just a quick reminder, if you’ve been enjoying the podcast, feel free to rate and review it, that us get in front of more moms who need to hear it and also come and join us in the Sober Mom Life group on Facebook.

If you’re looking for a community in sobriety, which we know how important that is, also we have Patreon. So if you’re looking for not only a way to support the podcast, but if you need bonus content, I release two bonus episodes a week and we also have an extra Zoom meeting. So we meet every Friday. 11:00 AM central time. That’s for the $7 members. The $10 members are already chatting on Discord and they have formed their own community and would welcome you into it. We are also starting a book club. Yay. The Sober Mom Life Book Club is kicking off at the beginning of April. Stay tuned for that and I really hope you enjoy this episode with Laura. Laura Tremaine. Welcome to the Sober Mom Life podcast. We were just saying we feel like we know each other.

Speaker 2 (04:05):

That is the power of Instagram, right? Like we can really, for

Speaker 1 (04:08):


Speaker 2 (04:09):

Feel like we’re friends.

Speaker 1 (04:11):

No, it’s so true. Like you’re, you’re so familiar to me. Every time you pop up on my feet I’m like, okay, good. Laura’s gonna tell me something about like how, you know, just you, you have these like nuggets of wisdom that come in my feed right when I need them. We’re gonna talk about journaling cuz I asked you to come on because I think journaling is just can be a beast and just intimidating. So I wanna hear about that. But first I think my whole audience would yell at me if we didn’t talk about friendship. Okay. Because you know, friendship, like your first book, share Your Stuff. I’ll go first. It lives on my nightstand first of all because it’s so pretty. Oh, <laugh>. It’s the prettiest book also because I love, I love the contents <laugh>, but it’s so pretty.

Speaker 2 (04:56):

Well I’m glad you love what’s inside, but I like speaking of Instagram, I loved that cover because it was so Instagramable. Yes.

Speaker 1 (05:06):

Right? Yes. You get it. And I think that, I mean, okay, don’t judge a book, blah, blah blah. But also books have to be pretty and And yours It. Yes, yours is,

Speaker 2 (05:16):

It matters. It matters.

Speaker 1 (05:18):

My best friend of, so I’m 42, so my best friend of 42 years, our moms were best friends and we have, even though our moms fell out, we’ve remained best friends. She sent me your book and she said, let’s do this together. She lives in Wisconsin, I live in Illinois by Chicago and she’s like, let’s do this. And you would think 42 years, I know my best friend. No. Like we learned so much about each other. Like that is if you guys want to take your friendship to the next level, that book is perfect for that.

Speaker 2 (05:51):

I know, I feel like it seems like from the surface that share your stuff is perfect for new friends or new relationships. It doesn’t have to necessarily do it with friends, you can do it with a partner, a sibling, anyone. However, I have heard that feedback so many times that doing it with an old friend is the most surprising or an older relationship because you think, you know, you can make certain assumptions about a person’s life, what was hard about their life or whatever. And then when you go through the questions, their highlights or their struggles might be so different from what you would have assumed. I just, I love it so much. But can we back up and talk about your best friend of 42 years, which I love. Yeah. But your mom’s fell out. Can you say more about that? Well,

Speaker 1 (06:38):

Yeah, and so it’s interesting. So her name’s Katie, Kate Olson. She’s actually at the Mindful Librarian which, and she follows you. She’s like a book grammar. She’s a Oh yeah. You

Speaker 2 (06:47):

Know she’s, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:49):

So she was three months old and I was six months old and her mom’s best friend. And it was that, this is such an interesting conversation because you know when you have just little kids and brand new babies, you generally do like find one person I know I did. And then you just like attach yourself to them because you just don’t have time to have this big group of friends. And so that’s what our moms were to each other for a long time. I would say for, I don’t know, maybe 10 years. Even though she moved away. We stayed in Wisconsin, they still remained close. And then there was just this growing apart thing. And I don’t know why Katie and I remained, it’s kind of like that sister friendship where it’s just unquestionable. It’s just like mm-hmm <affirmative> you. We don’t doubt it. You’re in my life. Like we are complete opposites. We always say if we had met in our twenties we wouldn’t, we would not be friends cuz we wouldn’t think we had anything in common. But when there’s such a shared history in that bond that’s unbreakable. It is. Other than my brother, she has been like the constant in my life. We’ve never lived in the same town since we were babies. But it’s just this like constant drumbeat of friendship and that presence that is just now at 42, I, it’s just, I treasure it so much.

Speaker 2 (08:11):

Yeah, well that’s irreplaceable. I mean that’s, you can’t create that. You can’t put in effort and make that happen. Like that’s just irreplaceable. Not everybody has that. But I have friends not from diapers like that, but friends from you know, elementary school like childhood that it is such a relief to me when I can call them and tell them a story about like my, my family of origin or something about our hometown or whatever. And you don’t have to fill in all the backstory. Like they already know why this was a complicated situation or whatever.

Speaker 1 (08:48):

Yes. Yeah. You don’t have to catch anybody up.

Speaker 2 (08:51):


Speaker 1 (08:53):

I think so. In in motherhood, you know, my kids, I have three kids, I have eight, six, and three. And a friendship in motherhood I think has been the hardest part for me. And I’ve been blessed with friends in each area of my life. In high school, in college, post-college and then working pre motherhood, pre-marriage, but then motherhood. It was, and it still is a challenge. You and I have something in common. What? My husband is 14 years older than I am. He’s 56. Oh, and your husband is 13 years older than you are, right?

Speaker 2 (09:29):

Yes. My husband is 56. I’m 43. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:32):

Okay. So I think that that has a lot to do with it. And I was listening to your podcast, 10 things to tell You with him. You did an episode with him that said, my husband is not my best friend, which I loved <laugh>. And you talk about like when you marry an older man, his life is already established.

Speaker 2 (09:50):


Speaker 1 (09:51):

<affirmative> like his friends are, you’re not in the same place as far as friends go.

Speaker 2 (09:57):

Well, as far as anything goes in some ways. Yeah, true. I mean we were in the same place and that we were on the same page for this life that we wanted to create together. But I was 27 when we got married and he was 40 and I mean he was like on his third career, he was like, you know, he wanted, we like joked but it wasn’t a joke. He wanted to have like 16 groomsmen and I was like, you, you cannot <laugh>. I mean, first of all, that’s crazy. Wait,

Speaker 1 (10:25):

Did he ha, how many did he have?

Speaker 2 (10:27):

Well you will die. He had 12.

Speaker 1 (10:29):

No, I mean that’s And how many did you have?

Speaker 2 (10:33):

I had six and he had 12

Speaker 1 (10:36):


Speaker 2 (10:37):

<laugh> I like was like we have to do this Aesthetically pleasing. Yeah. We lined them up three and three women on each side and six men on each side. They were sort of stacked.

Speaker 1 (10:46):

Oh my God.

Speaker 2 (10:47):

But he was like, I’m 40 years old, like I have 12 people that I truly want to stand here. So yeah, like the age difference. I wonder how it plays into the friendship thing because I feel a little bit differently than you do about mom life friends.

Speaker 1 (11:03):

Yeah. Tell me. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (11:05):

This might be a Los Angeles culture thing, I’m not sure. But I was really lonely, very lonely. My loneliest time period was in between getting married and my oldest kid hitting like kindergarten. So I tried so hard in the newborn years. Like I went to mommy and me classes, I went to the park, I did the play dates, I went to toddler birthday parties. Like I did all the things to try and make mom friends and it just did not work for me until my oldest started elementary school. I feel like if your oldest is eight, you might just be at the beginning of this because certain things start to happen. There’s like sports or activities or the social thing changes where you’re not doing play dates that are overly supervised cuz they’re a little bit older. Like a lot of things start to change. And that is when I made mom friends was in elementary school.

Speaker 1 (12:01):

I think that makes sense. I can feel now the tide is turning. Like I, I do go to dinners and I, and I have like my circle is slowly expanding. It’s just that new motherhood part where like, I couldn’t even fathom going out and making friends. What I couldn’t even fathom going out in public when I had a newborn and a toddler. Like I was just like, what the hell? I don’t know what day it is. What am I wearing? Like I just, I was just struggling in life and I think that that’s when we need the most support too. Which is why it’s hard. My husband, like yours was kind of established and so his life didn’t change. He still went to work, he did the same stuff. Right. He wasn’t in this kind of transitional thing.

Speaker 2 (12:43):

Well I guess that would be a part of where the age thing comes into play because n none of our other friends have such a huge age gap. And so his friends that were his age when we had babies, they had teenagers.

Speaker 1 (12:57):


Speaker 2 (12:57):

And my friends just because of I guess sort of a culture of growing up in Oklahoma, but living in la my Oklahoma friends already had like, let’s say elementary school age kids. When I had kids, my LA friends didn’t have kids yet cuz they started into their thirties. And so we just fell into this weird gap of we didn’t have any friends that were in the same stage of life that we were like that had babies. I feel like if I lived in a different part of the country or we didn’t have the age gap, like if there was a scenario where you had a group of friends and you were all going through these stages together, maybe that would feel less lonely if you were all having your first and second babies or whatever together. And that was not our reality. I just felt so alone. I didn’t feel like I fit in with old friends, new friends. I didn’t connect with people I was meeting new. Like it was rough, but it gets better. I wanna say that to you. It got better in elementary school.

Speaker 1 (13:52):

Yeah. That’s good. So, so how do you make a friend

Speaker 2 (13:56):

<laugh>? Oh my gosh. Listen,

Speaker 1 (13:57):

I know, I know 1 0 1. We

Speaker 2 (13:59):

Can talk about this, but I just wanna make sure that nobody thinks I’m a friendship expert even though I’ve written books on it.

Speaker 1 (14:06):

<laugh>, I think that you’re like a friendship advocate and you’re starting the conversation and I think that’s so important because there’s dating books and there’s all of these, but it’s like, no, no, no. I need someone to tell me like how do I go up to a mom like the cool mom that I’m like, okay, I really like you but what, what? It’s then you get all awkward, especially in sobriety, you know, we talk about friendships a lot in sobriety. There’s no liquid courage. It we’re, it’s just us and so mm-hmm <affirmative>, what do we do?

Speaker 2 (14:35):

Okay. I love the term friendship advocate and I might change my like bio. Good. That’s such a good phrase. You are. But I am not like, I don’t know a psychologist or I haven’t done all this research. I totally am writing and sharing from my lived experience. And I also want people to talk about it because you’re right, I feel like there’s all of these books and podcasts and conversations around other relationships in our life. Like obviously marriage parenthood, there’s even a lot of talk around like your relationship with your parents as an adult or like, you know, all these different things. Your, your relationships at work with a boss, all these things. No one talks about friendship in depth because I think we just feel like friendship is like an unending resource. There’s so many fish in the sea for friends if one doesn’t work out, there’s another like, it just feels like friends just seem so plentiful. But I do not know anybody who actually feels that way.

Speaker 1 (15:32):


Speaker 2 (15:33):

Friends are not that plentiful. Like

Speaker 1 (15:35):

They’re not

Speaker 2 (15:36):

How you make new friends. Okay. I ha I talk about this because my daughter just started a new school. She started middle school and so I had to like kind of walk the walk actually <laugh> of everything I’ve been talking about because I was like, okay, well now I’m gonna have to do that awkward thing where I text somebody hi. Like it’s like so weird.

Speaker 1 (15:57):

Yeah. It’s like slipping them a note like in middle school you’re like, Hey, do you like me

Speaker 2 (16:03):

<laugh>? You’re like sort of flirting. I mean, you know,

Speaker 1 (16:06):

It’s like a flirt. It’s like a give and take flirt. Yes. Which as a married woman, I, my flirting game is off, I gotta say

Speaker 2 (16:14):

<laugh>. Oh I know.

Speaker 1 (16:15):

It’s not at its strongest.

Speaker 2 (16:17):

You wanna appear kind of like cool and funny and casual and breezy just like you do in dating when you’re like, you don’t wanna seem too desperate and needy.

Speaker 1 (16:26):

Yeah. Don’t be too available. Don’t care too much. No. What? Like that’s where the social anxiety comes into. Ugh.

Speaker 2 (16:33):

No, it’s too much. Well first of all, the biggest thing for me in making friends is you have to start out with something in common. I have tried like literally tried to start up a conversation with like a cool looking woman at the coffee shop or whatever and that has never worked for me. I actually had an old essay on my old blog about how I really, there was this cool looking woman at the coffee shop and I just knew, like I was like we would be friends but yeah. You know, like it just doesn’t work. It is so much easier if you are starting with some umbrella of commonality. So like your kids are at the same school, you work out at the same place. Um, you’re in a book club. Like I don’t, some kind of thing that’s going to provide a chance for you to see one another regularly enough so that you’re not constantly having to like put out all this effort. You’re not trying to like each time come up with some new and unique thing you can do besides grabbing coffee or grabbing breakfast or whatever.

Speaker 1 (17:32):


Speaker 2 (17:32):

Yeah. Yeah. It’s too hard. It takes too much mental energy. You need to be able to see each other on a regular basis automatically. So that’s the first thing. Pick acquaintances when you’re looking at the landscape of your life that already exist in some way. So that’s the first thing. And and the way I think that sometimes people mess up a little bit. I mean not mess up, there’s no messing up here, but you know what I mean, they’re, yeah. They’re trying for something that is just gonna take too much work and most of us have like busy lives and we need it to be easier. It’s not gonna be a hundred percent easy but easier. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So starting with like a big thing in common and then, you know, gosh I just do the thing that you do when you’re dating. Like I start with a compliment. I always do. Like, oh I, you know, I really love your shoes or Oh I loved that book that you’re reading.

Speaker 1 (18:25):

Yes, that’s good.

Speaker 2 (18:26):

You know, just start with something like really positive. You know, most of us, like the listeners of this podcast, this group of people, we’re gonna be mindful enough to pick up the vibe. Like if someone is just like, thanks

Speaker 1 (18:40):

<laugh>. Right, right. Then I don’t wanna be her friend anyway. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:44):

Like she’s not open, right.

Speaker 1 (18:45):


Speaker 2 (18:46):

If she’s like, oh my gosh, thank you. I got the issues on sale and whatever. And then you can kind of like start the flirty banter of friendship.

Speaker 1 (18:54):

Yeah, that’s a good in. I like that. Okay. Okay. Compliments. That’s really good. I like that a lot.

Speaker 2 (19:00):

I think that some people feel like that’s inauthentic. Like I’ve seen some criticism some about how women, and this might be directed at young girls, but I, I do think that sometimes this applies to women too are like overly enthusiastic let’s say in the comments like, you’re so beautiful, you’re amazing. Like that kind of activity that we see online or like women who like greet each other as if they’ve haven’t seen each other in years and they saw each other yesterday. I’ve seen criticism of that, but I actually think that’s just like, kind of like the bonding ritual of women.

Speaker 1 (19:33):

I know. No, it’s so true. I, you know, I was playing a game with my mom and my sister-in-law on vacation and it’s called, we see and it’s just this like creative like image. You pair images together and we were so encouraging of each other and it just highlighted the fact that women when we get together we’re so supportive and encouraging and that’s great because when my husband plays that game, it’s not that way. It’s just a different vibe. The guy throws off the vibe, he’s like, what? That doesn’t go together. I don’t see it. And I’m like, you know what, just excuse yourself. That’s just our vibe and that’s how it comes across online is just super supportive.

Speaker 2 (20:13):

I feel that way. And one of the, in my new book I write out these five friendship philosophies and one of them is like every selfie, I took this from Yes. A David Gate poem, but it became a deep friendship philosophy for me because when we withhold likes and comments on social media, it is sort of poisonous. Like when we’re like, I’m not gonna like that because she’s posted three selfies this week. Or I’m not gonna comment that I love her new haircut cuz God it doesn’t even look that good. We are not culture critics. It costs us nothing to like and comment in this encouraging way. And I don’t think that that’s phony or inauthentic to do that. I think that it’s just a touchdown of connection. And I started thinking about this because I do these informal polls on Instagram where I just sort of like toss out a, a conversation starter and see what people say.

Yeah. I asked on Instagram, do you notice if your friends don’t like or comment on your stuff? And I wasn’t talking to like influencers, I was talking to regular people who use social media in like a personal way. And I have never in all my years gotten such a immediate and wide range of very passionate answers. Yeah. Really. They felt so passionate about this question. Some people felt passionately like, no, that’s stupid. You can’t keep score friendship, you can’t pay attention to that. I mean like they felt that passionately. Yeah. Wow. And then other people were like, I don’t wanna care. But I do. I definitely noticed when my friends like everyone else’s posts, but they never like mine. It hurts my feelings when my sister-in-law or mom or whoever never comments on my posts unless it’s about my kids or something like that. People have deep feelings about this and they don’t want to, they don’t wanna talk about it cuz they don’t wanna seem petty.

Everyone knows that. Like, you’re not supposed to care, but so many people care. Totally. And so it, I had already been sort of thinking about this a little bit, but once I had this conversation that exploded, my dms exploded. Yeah. There was hundred and hundreds of comments on the post. I mean it was, people really wanted to talk about this thing of liking or commenting on one another’s post. Some people felt very defensive like, well I don’t like or comment on anybody’s post <laugh>. Or some people felt like, wow. Like as a rule. Yeah. People have like, we have our own rules around it. Right. Like, well I’m, you know, I’ve liked that person’s post too many times. I don’t wanna look needy so now I’m gonna stop liking. We totally do. Like we get in our head in a hundred ways. And so I made it a friendship philosophy for myself.

Like I did this for myself before I wrote about it where I was like, this is my new philosophy. Like every selfie, every time a friend’s face comes through my feed, I’m gonna like it. I do not care how good she looks or bad she looks or if the lighting is poor or if I’m jealous that she’s on vacation and I’m not, or doesn’t even matter to me. I’m not gonna weigh the pros and cons of throwing her alike in a comment. Because this is the way that we do friendship in 2023. Yes. I love

Speaker 1 (23:44):

That. We do have to figure out these things when social media is so present in our lives and we are seeing the selfies, they know we’re seeing the selfies and they’re posting the selfies. It’s such a vulnerable thing to post a selfie on Instagram. Mm-hmm <affirmative> to post anything on Instagram. I think it’s so vulnerable. You’re putting something out into the world and you’re saying, here I am, I am sharing this. It’s a bid for connection, it’s a bid for belonging. It’s all of these things when it seems like it’s just a post. And so I think that that’s wonderful. Everybody like everybody’s selfies. Please Yes, you’re friends, your friends. Not everybody’s <laugh>.

Speaker 2 (24:22):

It can go back to like what we started out with. Like how do you make new friends? Because there’s, how do you make new friends in person? How do you make friends on the internet? Because I’ve made some of my deepest connections in the last 10 years from people I’ve met on the internet. And when those things intertwine, like maybe your newly Instagram or Facebook friends with a new acquaintance in your town or whatever, that goes a long way just giving a cute comment or like saying something a little bit like that helps it be less awkward next time you’re in person. All of these things as like part of the flirting that we’re talking about

Speaker 1 (24:59):

<laugh>. Yes. It’s so true. The flirting online, I can tell you like I can think of one of my friends who is so supportive and sweet online and so then that carries over into real life when I see her of course. And I feel close. Cause that was, you know, a, a connection that we made. Even if I hadn’t seen her in a few weeks, I still feel close to her because it’s like, oh you see me, I see you. We’ve been connected even though we haven’t seen each other.

Speaker 2 (25:25):

Yes. It it’s real. It’s, I know that like we’re about the same age. Like we don’t want that to be part of the friendship thing. Like we, it feels complicated of like, well we should be authentic in person only or something, but we need to like catch up to the time. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (25:41):

We do. This

Speaker 2 (25:41):

Is part of friendship. It just is. And the commenting and the liking and just seeing, like letting people feel seen like, oh I saw you know, that you posted pics from your vacation that looked so fun. That’s a conversation starter next time that you’re in person.

Speaker 1 (25:57):

Yes. That’s so true. And so your new book, the Life Council 10 Friends, every Woman Needs What That comes out soon? April.

Speaker 2 (26:06):

April 4th.

Speaker 1 (26:07):

April 4th. Okay. So the 10 Friends, when I read 10 Friends, I’m not gonna lie, I was like, oh my god, 10 like is that a lot? But does this include online friends?

Speaker 2 (26:16):


Speaker 1 (26:17):

Okay. Okay, good. This

Speaker 2 (26:17):

Includes friends over your lifetime.

Speaker 1 (26:21):

So I don’t need 10 friends today <laugh>.

Speaker 2 (26:23):

No. I have to tell you, so many people are stressed out by the subtitle of my book When they say that it says 10 friends immediately.

Speaker 1 (26:32):

Really? Not Just Me.

Speaker 2 (26:33):

No, not just you. So many people. In fact, I ended up addressing it in the book because when I re you know, released the cover and people saw the title or whatever, I ended up, I was still in the editing process addressing it a little bit in the book of like, don’t see that subtitle 10 friends and immediately go to a place of scarcity of like, well I don’t have that. Yes

Speaker 1 (26:54):

I did that, I

Speaker 2 (26:55):

Did that. I can’t read this book, it’s gonna make me feel bad.

Speaker 1 (26:57):

I didn’t do that cuz I was like, okay, I need to know. It’s, I think it’s a great subtitle if it gets people talking and if it gets people feeling and it’s like, hold on. Okay, 10 friends. Let’s see. I, I’m curious now to know the 10 friends.

Speaker 2 (27:10):

So the 10 friends are over the course of your lifetime and some of them like even lend themselves to being seasonal. You’re not always going to have a mentor like that might be a certain time in your career or early parenthood or whatever. Eventually you might become the mentor. So then you’re that seat on someone else’s life Counsel. You’re not always gonna have a battle buddy as one of my friends. Like when you’re going through something really hard that’s also might be seasonal, you’re not always gonna have a fellow obsessive That’s one of the friends also because our obsessions go in and out, you know,

Speaker 1 (27:45):

The fellow obsessive I love, I definitely have one of those. Okay.

Speaker 2 (27:49):

Yeah. So it’s just like I want people to look at the whole of their life and be like, ugh. You know, when I was in my twenties at a really hard job, I totally had a battle buddy. Like in that situation I’m wanting people to look at like their whole landscape to see what different people have brought to their life and then also like who they are in other people’s lives. The people that have made the biggest impact. They’re not always childhood friends from diapers, they’re not always soul sisters. It’s not always that deep. We are gonna have a lot of relationships that are more surface. They’re online only. They are at work only they’re because we were both obsessed with a band or a podcast or a TV show only. That’s only what that relationship is, which is sort of a shallow connection, but it still is really fun and matters.

Speaker 1 (28:42):


Speaker 2 (28:43):

That’s what I want people to think about. Like I don’t want people to feel the scarcity of they don’t have 10 soul sister deep friends.

Speaker 1 (28:51):

Right. Right. Of

Speaker 2 (28:52):

Course not very many people have 10 of those. You know, these are all different types of friendships and they’re still valid. I wanted to give some validity to those shallow friendships even.

Speaker 1 (29:04):

Yes, I love that. So the friends that I connect only on about Bravo and the Housewives, those are meaningful connections. Like those are important friends,

Speaker 2 (29:13):

It’s fun to you. Yes. Those are friends who are like sharing like a hobby with you basically. And how is that not fun? That is so fun. That

Speaker 1 (29:23):

Is so fun. And also when you’re, when you’re newly sober and when you’re sober it, it’s hard to like bring that to real life and in-person life and so don’t discount those online friends. Right. Because those online friends are some of the like, it’s so much easier for me to share my deepest thoughts and my fears with someone I’ve never met, but I feel really connected to online. Mm-hmm <affirmative> not a stranger.

Speaker 2 (29:48):

Totally. And then that matters

Speaker 1 (29:50):

<laugh>. Yeah. And it matters. And so, okay, one more friendship question and then we’re gonna talk about journaling. I promise. How do we break up with a friend?

Speaker 2 (29:58):

Oh gosh, isn’t this so hard?

Speaker 1 (30:01):

It’s so hard. And I think in sobriety a lot of times we realized that the relationship we thought we had was really just alcohol and we just liked together because we both drank a lot and I didn’t feel bad about my drinking because you were drinking as much and hey look at us. But then when we remove the alcohol it’s like, oh wait, I kind of can’t stand you or I kind of don’t feel great when I’m around you. I don’t feel my best anymore. It’s so hard.

Speaker 2 (30:32):

It’s so there’s two ways to go about this. What I think mostly happens is a friendship fade. It’s not a total ghost. You’re not like, you know, you don’t have to put up a wall because that’s unkind, but it’s just sort of you, you sort of drift apart. And a lot of times, unless the friendship is a deep and important and meaningful one, but some of our more sofas friends like, it just, it comes in waves. People get it. Like it’s sort of a friendship fade. But when it requires more than that, like when it requires a conversation, Brene Brown taught us that clear is kind. And I say this as someone who was broken up with in a very clear way. Like it was devastating. It was actually heartbreaking. And I feel like we don’t talk about how heartbreaking friendship breakups can be because again it goes back to the thing of like, oh well find a new friend, whatever friendship breakups can be truly devastating.

But it was a gift to me in the big picture way that she was very clear about it over email. So I didn’t spend months or years wondering, I didn’t keep pursuing her. You know, I didn’t feel ghosted. There was a friendship fade like seasoned. And then when I kind of like tried to revamp it, you know, I tried to like bring the friendship, you know, back to life. I didn’t want us to fade. She was really clear in an email. And I do think clear is kind, but it is, it is hard to do it. It’s hard to receive it.

Speaker 1 (32:08):

Yeah. I like that idea. Rather than I, I think a lot of people are just like, well let me just ghost really and not respond. And I, I think unresponsive can be so damaging because if there’s ever someone who’s just like not responding to me and I’m filling in the blanks and in all of those blanks, I’m the problem and I did something wrong and then my mind spirals and it’s like, okay. And then I go over every, you know, interaction and where did I go wrong? And it’s like it might not even be that. And so yeah, if you’re feeling like you’ve just outgrown a friendship or you’re not in the same place or you want something else or something, yes. Be clear.

Speaker 2 (32:48):

And I think you can also sometimes like there is a medium way when you don’t wanna be like, I cannot be friends with you. Like that feels less personal. There is a medium way. If it’s a person who doesn’t need that specific communication of that, it is about them. Like you can’t stand them, right. If they’re like a mean person or whatever and you feel like you need to make it clear that it’s personal, but in other ways, most of us who are thoughtful like human beings, you know, you can kind of, I don’t wanna say white lie, but like you can aid yourself in the friendship fade to be like, look, I’m really focusing on my sobriety right now and I just have to keep my world smaller.

Speaker 1 (33:27):

That’s a great way.

Speaker 2 (33:29):

Or yeah, I’m really drowning in work this year. I have a big deadline in six months and I’m just pairing everything down to the necessities. Or

Speaker 1 (33:38):


Speaker 2 (33:39):

We’re, you know, I mean, and that’s not necessarily a white lie, but I mean you can sort of lean into something else if it is just like, I don’t like love this person or I don’t wanna put any effort into this versus like friends that have purposely hurt you or something like that, that requires a conversation. But otherwise, I have done this a few times and it, it hasn’t been a white lie. It’s been absolutely true. Like in my postpartum days or in times where I’m like, I’m having to like really keep my life and world small right now. And so if I don’t reply to text or whatever, just please know that it’s, it’s me and I’m going through something or however you wanna phrase it that feels comfortable to you. But clear is kind

Speaker 1 (34:20):

<laugh>. Yes, clear is kind. And I think just, yeah, that communication, even if you’re not breaking up with a friend and it’s just like, I’m going through a time of overwhelm right now and trying to, you know, just when we have a lot going on and we always have a lot going on, but, and I listened to your podcast on overwhelm and I think that was great and it was, yeah, what can you take off your plate? You’re not gonna take the friendships off the plate, but right now maybe is not the time. Especially if you’re in new sobriety. Yeah. You’re, you’re focusing on that. You’re protecting your sobriety right now. That does not mean, you know, our friendships off the table. It just means right now is not the great time. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, that’s really important. Okay, well when I first reached out to you it was because you had a course, what was it, journaling for grownups?

Yes. Soda was called. Which is amazing. And I said even if I’m not a grownup, can I still journal? Cuz I still don’t feel like a grownup. I feel like my mom is 40, I am not 42. Right. So journaling, I think, you know, I talk about it in sobriety a lot. I’ve journaled, you know, I found like my journals from when I was 10 and I was horrified and talking about boys already and I’m like, oh no, you’re 10. You know, like stop <laugh>. Oh my God. But it’s a big tool for me. But even I feel just intimidated by journaling sometimes and I’m like, oh right, I should journal and I should sit down and do this. And then I feel like it just feels tasky a lot of the times. So I love when you share your prompts on Instagram. Like those all, I’m like okay. Right. So listen to the prompts and what is that? So teach me how to journal. I just have really easy questions for you today, don’t I?

Speaker 2 (36:04):

People make journaling into something that it does not have to be. Why

Speaker 1 (36:09):

Do we do that?

Speaker 2 (36:10):

We have so many misconceptions about what journaling is. People think that journaling has to be like a narrative in like sentences. It has to make sense if someone else were to read it. Like because we have published journals by like famous writers or you know, former presidents or whatever. People think that that’s what their journal has to look like. It’s almost like a memoir or something. It has to be well written and it has to make sense.

Speaker 1 (36:35):

Yes. Like punctuation, like gimme a semicolon and all this. Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:41):

Or people think that it has to be, I, I don’t like overly spiritual or I mean people, there’s all these misconceptions. People think it might be J Juvenile, like journaling is something that teenagers

Speaker 1 (36:53):

Do. Dear diary.

Speaker 2 (36:54):

Yeah. Like dear diary style. People think it’s a big task. Like you’re saying like you have to sit down and write like pages or that you have to like catch up. You know you can’t, you haven’t picked up a journal in six months. You can’t just start with where you are. You have to like catch the journal

Speaker 1 (37:09):

Up. I know. <laugh> it. It’s so funny that you say that because literally even into my twenties I, I was reading a journal and every single page was like, wow, okay, so I haven’t journaled in a while and then it’s like I’m telling my journal like why I haven’t like I’m sorry I haven’t journaled, here’s why. And I’m like, what? Well what about just what’s going

Speaker 2 (37:28):

On <laugh>? Yeah. Why don’t we do that? The journal does not talk back to us.

Speaker 1 (37:32):

It feels like I have to prove to the journal like I’m so sorry.

Speaker 2 (37:36):

Yeah. And no one’s gonna publish our journals. I mean this is not like Right.

Journaling should be a tool for you to feel better to help you process. If you want to use journaling as a documentation tool, which is another type of journaling. If you wanna like really document a season in your life or something like that. And so you do kind of want it to make a little bit of sense. That is a task like that is like keeping a scrapbook or you know, putting together a photo album like that is a different type of project. Most of the time when I’m talking about journaling, I want people to use it as a tool for personal growth or healing or sort of process their emotions or just get in touch with their emotions. And so because of that, I tell people a few different things. One is do not use a pretty journal. Don’t do it.

Speaker 1 (38:26):

What? Okay. Okay. This is blowing my mind right now and it’s gonna be hard for my brain to wrap around but I’m open. Okay.

Speaker 2 (38:34):

If you have an extra pretty journal and And notebooks are beautiful. I collect them. I think they’re so pretty.

Speaker 1 (38:40):

I love notebooks. Yes.

Speaker 2 (38:42):

It really affects how you write inside of it because you don’t wanna write, you don’t want your handwriting to be messy. Yes. You don’t wanna put something like, like sensitive. If you’re really struggling with something, you don’t wanna put that down in a pretty journal. Yes. Because you’re gonna keep a pretty journal and you don’t want someone else to find it and you don’t wanna read it later. You don’t wanna soil this pretty journal stop that. That is also stupid. You need to get just a plain notebook. Oh

Speaker 1 (39:10):

My god.

Speaker 2 (39:11):

Like the plains. Okay. I just use a plain black mole skin. But you could use in it, you could literally use like a spiral notebook from Target. It does not matter. But don’t use something that’s gonna feel precious. Stop. Stop out.

Speaker 1 (39:26):

Yes. Okay. Okay. You’ve got me. Okay.

Speaker 2 (39:28):

And then secondly, and I think this is so important because no one gives us permission to do this as adults. It doesn’t need to make sense. You don’t need to catch up. It doesn’t need to be complete sentences. Do you know that as an enormous journaling advocate online? I teach journaling about 50% of my journal entries are lists.

Speaker 1 (39:52):


Speaker 2 (39:53):

Lists are entries. Okay.

Speaker 1 (39:56):

I’m guessing it’s not a grocery list. So what are you listing? Like tell me.

Speaker 2 (40:01):

So we just went on a family vacation to Hawaii at the end of the vacation, the last day of the vacation, I turn to a fresh page of my play notebook and I write at the top what I want to remember about Hawaii. And then I just bullet point things that I want to remember, things that my kids said the best meals we had, like whatever. I don’t write a paragraph about them, I list them now if there are some things that I wanna come back to and and write a paragraph about why something felt beautiful or special or something, then that’s a jumping off point cuz I’ve made the list and then I maybe will then write some more sentences about a few things. But I don’t feel like I have like encapsulate this whole trip. No,

Speaker 1 (40:44):

Paint the picture. Yeah. Cuz that’s a lot that we just went on a trip too and I find myself being like, okay, I wanna remember that. And then I write, but then it’s like, okay, well we did this blah blah blah blah blah and it’s like, yeah the, the meat of the story is that Grace said this really funny thing that I don’t wanna forget.

Speaker 2 (41:01):

Yeah. When you read back, if you choose to read back to your journals, cause I’m gonna get to in a second. You do not care about how pretty the sunset was. I you don’t.

Speaker 1 (41:12):

No you don’t. You care

Speaker 2 (41:13):

About what your kids said you care about, you know that you went snorkeling together. It was the first time one kid did this or that you care about that you had a meaningful moment with your partner. You know, you might care about a truly standout meal. I mean, I don’t know, but you don’t care about like some of these pretty fluffy things that we write about. And so give yourself permission to just make a list or that’s for something like this, like a vacation. If you are journaling for something emotional, it’s like you’re going through something, you need to get your emotions out, give yourself permission to make it not make sense. You don’t need to explain anything. No one else is gonna read this. You can just write, you know, the scrappiest thing in your grossest handwriting. Just get your emotions out because this is my ex big thing. Throw it away.

Speaker 1 (42:10):

Hmm. Wait, which one? All of them? No. Oh no.

Speaker 2 (42:15):

Certain entries.

Speaker 1 (42:17):

Okay. For the emotional one. Right. You don’t throw the list one away. I

Speaker 2 (42:22):

Don’t throw the list ones away.

Speaker 1 (42:23):

Do you go back and read

Speaker 2 (42:25):

’em? Almost never do I go back and read them. Even when I wrote my first book, which was has a lot more like sort of memoir type stories in it. I still, I went back to use them as like research and then I was like, no <laugh>, I don’t want to read these old journals. I’m not writing this book from the place of the 22 year old Laura. I’m writing this book from 40 year old Laura’s perspective. Yeah. And I know how I felt about it. I don’t need to revisit it. Right. So I keep those journals, some of those old journals, but I don’t ever really revisit them and I didn’t use them for my own memoir. Which is shocking to people. And I want people to feel like they can throw away what they write down because this is addressing one of our obstacles to journaling. We don’t want to journal in a messy way. We don’t wanna write down something that someone could find or read. So if we’re having to write down something really ugly about a family member or friend or something, one of the reasons that we don’t write it down justifiably is that we are afraid someone’s gonna find it.

Speaker 1 (43:30):

Yes. When I die, my kid’s gonna read my journals. Right. Which they will.

Speaker 2 (43:34):

That’s a valid worry for people. But if you give yourself permission, like I need to get this out of my head and body and spirit, I need to get this onto the page and then I’m gonna throw it away. That’s actually part of the releasing, that’s part of the journal being a tool of letting you get it out. Sometimes you’ll see patterns on the page or you’ll write something on the page you didn’t even know you felt until you wrote it down. It can really like help you process and notice things and then you can alleviate all this concern by throwing it away, burning it, ripping it up. It doesn’t always have to be dramatic like that. Mine are never dramatic. I usually just throw it away.

Speaker 1 (44:15):

Do it. Can you just burn? I I love drama. Do it, burn it <laugh>, burn

Speaker 2 (44:20):

It. I mean it can be part of the healing part if you burn it. I mean truly if you’re like, I’m gonna write down every part of this that is so hard and then I’m gonna release it and I’m gonna release it in a way that’s gonna help release it. So I am gonna like ritualistically tear it up or burn it or whatever. Do you

Speaker 1 (44:35):

Guys do that? Yes. This is making me think about in early sobriety, you know I talk about opening doors too. Just start to see how alcohol had tricked you and when you let it be in the driver’s seat and what happened when alcohol was in control. And a lot of times we have those doors closed because that’s so full of shame and, but when we start to open those and process those, that’s how we get through ’em. And that would be a perfect thing to write down all of those moments that you’ve had hidden away that felt too shameful. Write ’em down with compassion as you’re loving yourself and then burn that shit up.

Speaker 2 (45:08):

Right. Why do we feel like we have to keep them? You know, why we think we have to keep them because it’s in a pretty notebook.

Speaker 1 (45:14):

So true. And it feels like this is what, when you said throw it away, I was like, oh. But all of that time that I spent, why does that feel like if I don’t have something to show for it, something tangible that I wasted my time. That’s fucked up

Speaker 2 (45:28):

<laugh>. No, I mean if you took a power walk to process some emotions, like you need to like get out of the house, you had a fight with your husband, you needed to like do a power walk. You do feel better when you get back. But nobody was like, let me see.

Speaker 1 (45:42):


Speaker 2 (45:43):

Your Apple watch proof that you did this. I mean, no.

Speaker 1 (45:45):

Yeah. Let me see your steps. Yeah. How many steps Otherwise didn’t count. Although my mom does think that she, she wears that watch and she’s like, I got 10,000 steps today <laugh>. Um, that’s so true. Okay. The pretty notebook thing. Okay. You guys no more pretty notebooks. Not even the ones that you keep.

Speaker 2 (46:02):

I mean I have pretty notebooks for other things.

Speaker 1 (46:05):

Okay. What do you use your pretty notebooks for?

Speaker 2 (46:07):

I have an affirmation journal. I have a gratitude journal.

Speaker 1 (46:11):

Tell me that. Wait, what are these, you’ve got a lot of journals going at the same time. Yes. They play different roles.

Speaker 2 (46:18):

I do and I advise that, especially for those of us who like notebooks <laugh>, because this gives you an excuse to have a pretty notebook and write in it. But it’s, that’s a really a different thing from journaling as a tool. These, these are also tools, but it’s just a different thing. So I have one notebook that I use in the morning where I write some affirmations as part of my morning routine. And that’s all it is. There’s a fresh page each day. Five affirmations. Oh, that’s all it is. Yeah. I have a gratitude journal that I don’t write in every day. I, you know, it’s just periodic, but it’s like a gratitude practice of if I’m sort of making a list or writing some things that are in my heart that’s in a pretty notebook. Someone could read it, someone could find it, it lives besides my bed and I wouldn’t feel bad about it. And then I have these plain notebooks that are, I use as tools for my growth. That’s a totally different thing than documenting the first year of your child’s life or you know, these other things. It’s different.

Speaker 1 (47:21):

Yes. My grandma’s journal was so like, so cute. She passed away a few years ago and it’s like today it was, you know, 45 and rainy and the Packers won and I wore this, you know, and I’m like, grandma, I’m so glad that I know that in 1985 this happened. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (47:38):

Yeah. It’s, that’s different. Whatever reason she wanted to write that down maybe for her, for our past generations, our grandmothers and beyond that was their social media. Not to share but to document their lives. Like part of our social media when we post, it’s not to brag or whatever, it’s to say I was here, this is what happened in my day and in my life. Yes. That is maybe what your grandma was doing when she was like, I wore this and the packers won. Yeah. That’s just her like sort of affirming to herself. I’m sure she would not use that woowoo language, but like Yeah. That is her sort of spiritually being like, this was my life and I was here.

Speaker 1 (48:19):

I’m here. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (48:21):

And we don’t have to use journaling in that way. Now we can of course. But like we have social media and we have other ways to say we were here. And so journaling to me, it’s a tool and it’s, we have so many hangups about it that no one ever tells us to like, release those hangups. You don’t have to keep a journal, you don’t have to use a pretty notebook. It can be messy. All the things.

Speaker 1 (48:46):

Yeah. And I love this idea that, cuz in my mind it was like one journal and, and, and I do get overwhelmed. Like, wait, is it, am I, am I saying what I’m thankful for? Am I writing my deepest, darkest secrets? Am I just documenting our vacation? I love this idea of different journals. I think that that is a light bulb thing to me. And I’m like, wait, that’s great. More notebooks, <laugh>, I’m on board. I saw you post on Instagram. It said, when you’re talking you’re not feeling Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:13):


Speaker 1 (49:14):

Blew my mind. I, you know, my mom’s a therapist and we, we are talkers and we’ll talk about our feelings, but it’s Yeah, you’re not doing both.

Speaker 2 (49:24):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I’m a talker and I’m a verbal processor. So when something has happened and I need to talk through it with a friend, we will talk and analyze it for an hour. I will get on Voxer, this app I use with my friends and I will just, you know, Vox, these voice messages.

Speaker 1 (49:43):

What is Voxer? It’s to share voice messages.

Speaker 2 (49:45):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it’s a voice messaging app. It’s sort of like, but unlike voice messages, like in your texting or whatever, it, it saves them, it keeps them.

Speaker 1 (49:53):

Oh, that’s cool.

Speaker 2 (49:54):

I love it. And I will really verbally process something from each angle and whatever. Like I’ll really talk it through and I am a type of person who I like repeat stories. I mean, not like to the same person, but you know what, I need to say the exact same thing to my husband and to my friends and to my therapist as I’m processing three stuff. And I, I will do this like verbally, but because I’m such a talker, I realize that talking and talking and talking is a way to not feel the pain of it. Analyzing. It keeps you from hurting.

Speaker 1 (50:32):

Yeah. Cuz you’re all in your, in your head.

Speaker 2 (50:34):

Yeah. And you’re like problem solving sort of like, when you’re verbally processing it, you’re like trying to make sense of it. You’re trying to put the pieces together. You’re trying to explain the story to someone else. Like yes. But all of those things which sometimes are necessary are not letting you really feel that this is painful or that your feelings are hurt or that you really love someone or all these things we don’t let ourselves feel. And I’m sure in your community you must talk a lot about the ways that you try to not feel things like, yeah. That’s why people, you know, drink is to not feel things and we talk or I do certain personality types, I guess talk in order to not feel things, it makes us feel productive. And sometimes pain is not productive. It’s just it hurts Something that hurts.

Speaker 1 (51:28):

Yes. And it’s scary. It’s scary to stop talking and start feeling,

Speaker 2 (51:33):

Oh, it’s te it’s, first of all it’s miserable. It’s terrible.

Speaker 1 (51:36):

Yeah. It’s miserable. It’s terrifying. It’s horrible. It’s not fun. Oh God. Okay. I am going to get more notebooks. And you changed my thinking about journaling and now I kind of feel like a grownup. I gotta say

Speaker 2 (51:53):

<laugh>. You’re gonna journal for grownups. Just like my class <laugh>. I’m

Speaker 1 (51:56):

Gonna, I know. Are you gonna have another one?

Speaker 2 (51:59):

I am. If people go to my Instagram, they can, um, sign up to get like an email the next time I Oh good. Do the class. Because you know, this is so funny. I was like, I don’t know, maybe like 50 people will sign up for this. I was like, I will count this a win if 50 people pay for this class because, you know, it’s sort of niche and like whatever. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (52:19):

That’s a lot.

Speaker 2 (52:20):

Do you know how many people signed up for it?

Speaker 1 (52:21):

<laugh> Tell me, tell me

Speaker 2 (52:23):

500 people.

Speaker 1 (52:25):


Speaker 2 (52:26):


Speaker 1 (52:27):

That’s amazing.

Speaker 2 (52:28):

Like 4 92 or something. But I was like, that many people need to learn how to journal

Speaker 1 (52:34):

Because everyone tells us to do it, but no one tells us how it’s like, we’re supposed, it’s like friendship. It’s like, well obviously you know how to do that. And I’m like, okay, well can we just explain it a little? Like no one wants to be the person in class to be like, well, but could you just tell me how to make a friend and how to journal? Like thanks and you’re doing that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:52):

People wanna know I’m doing it. I’m trying

Speaker 1 (52:54):

To do it. Yeah. No, you are doing it. I’m telling you, you’re, you’re amazing. Also, I would be remiss if I did not say tell your husband. Thank you. Your husband Jeff Tremaine is the creator of Jackass. It has, it has provided so many laughs in our household. Jackass forever came at a time when I think we needed it the most. Yes. And everyone from my eight year old. Yes. I let my eight year old watch it. Even in the beginning she’s like, what’s happening? I’m like, oh, you know it’s, and my 70 year old mom, we were just dying laughing. So please just tell him Thank you.

Speaker 2 (53:33):

I’m so glad I’m so different from my husband in so many ways. And yeah, and people are often like, you know, how do you, how do you, like, how do you connect? I don’t know. People are like, just,

Speaker 1 (53:47):

How do you, yeah, how

Speaker 2 (53:48):

Is this working? And I’m like, we are doing very different work in the world. But I really appreciate what he does. Like I see it on a global level that making those movies, it really matters to people. Making people laugh is always important. And so I am proud of him.

Speaker 1 (54:10):

Yeah, you should be. It’s always important. It’s medicine. And I think it just came at the perfect time when America needed a collective belly laugh at something so silly and hilarious and gross. <laugh>. So gross. And it was just so gross. <laugh>. But it was perfect. Oh, it was perfect. I adore you. Tell everybody where they can find you in your book coming out, buy your other book. All of all of the things. You are busy.

Speaker 2 (54:36):

Thank you for having me. This has been such a fun chat. We could have gone on and on. I feel like

Speaker 1 (54:41):

I know.

Speaker 2 (54:42):

You can find me@lauratremaine.com. My new book, the Life Council comes out April 1st. I would love people to buy it. And I have a weekly podcast called 10 Things to Tell You.

Speaker 1 (54:52):

It’s amazing.

Speaker 2 (54:53):

Thank you. And I prefer Instagram of all the places. And on Instagram. I am at Laura dot Tremaine.

Speaker 1 (55:00):

Yes. Go. Just follow her. Pre-order the book, listen to the podcast, do it all you guys. Laura’s gonna help us be good friends and who journal and, and her husband’s gonna make us laugh, <laugh>. And she’s gonna make us laugh. You’re just such a bright light. So thank

Speaker 2 (55:16):

You. I’m so kind. Thank you. I’m so glad we finally got to connect here, actually. I

Speaker 1 (55:20):

Know, I know. Me too. Thank you. Laura, thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Silver Mom Life. If you loved it, please rate and review it wherever you listen. Five stars is amazing. Also, follow me on Instagram at the silver Mom life. Okay, I’ll see you next week. I’m gonna go reheat my coffee. Bye.

Speaker 3 (55:51):

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Speaker 3 (55:58):

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Okay. Do you wanna be in a room of overeducated, douche bags and feel comfortable? Brand new information is for you.

Speaker 3 (56:08):

What’s it gonna take to put you in this podcast today? We have brand new information on sale for free, free wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (56:17):

Yeah, we might not break the political and pop culture news of the week,

Speaker 3 (56:20):

But we put it right back together for you.

Speaker 1 (56:22):

That’s right. Listen, wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

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