Today I’m joined by Jaimie, an energy healer and mom of two who is seven months sober!
Jaimie’s sobriety journey began in honor of a dear friend who had committed suicide. The original 30-day sobriety challenge she had set out for herself has become seven months, and in that time Jaimie’s eyes have been opened to the dangers of the alcohol and the beauty of sobriety.
Join us for an enlightening chat about showing up as a parent, witching hour, and the clarity sobriety gives us in managing emotions.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, welcome to the Sober Mom Life podcast. I’m your host, Suzanne of my kind of suite and the sober mom life on Instagram. If you are a mama who has questioned your relationship with alcohol at times, if you’re wondering if maybe it’s making motherhood harder, this is for you. I will be having candid, honest, funny conversations with other moms who have also thought, Hmm, maybe motherhood is better without alcohol. Is it possible? We’ll chat and we’ll talk about all things sobriety and how we’ve found freedom in sobriety. I don’t consider myself an alcoholic. You don’t have to either, and maybe life is brighter without alcohol. I hope you will join us on this journey, and I’m so excited to get started.
Hello, sober mom Lifers. I don’t know. Is that what we’re calling ourselves? <laugh>? I don’t know. Let’s try it out for a while. See, see if it sticks. We have another real sober mom today. Today I speak with Jamie. It’s so funny. I’ve, I’ve talked to a lot of Jamie’s. I didn’t know that was such a common name, and they’re all spelled differently. It’s so interesting. It is funny that I’ve, I’ve spoken with a lot of moms at this point, and while there’s the common thread of, you know, what sobriety has done and kind of how they’re feeling in their sobriety, all of their stories are really different, and what they are learning from sobriety and what they’re taking from it. I hear something new every single time, which I think is really interesting. And it says something about everybody’s sobriety journey is, while it may feel the same in some areas, it’s just really is different.
And I love it, you guys. I just love this stuff. I love being able to sit in my closet and connect with moms all across the country. Yeah, so Jamie is just, oh man, her energy’s amazing. Which is not a coincidence because she’s an energy healer. She’s, she runs a holistic practice, so she’s really in tune with everybody’s energy, and I think that’s an interesting conversation when it comes to moms because, you know, it’s almost like we’re the energy keepers of the house, and especially in witching hour and toddler tantrums and just matching energies can be tricky with moms. It’s like when my toddler’s losing his shit, like I, I don’t wanna match his energy. I want him to match mine. How do I bring calm to the situation? So we talk a lot about energy, which I really like, and I find energy fascinating.
I think you guys will really like this conversation. Also, just a reminder, if you’re liking the podcast, please just rate it all of the stars. I think you can rate it five, maybe six, maybe 10, I don’t know. Just rate it all of ’em. And then wherever you listen to it, follow the show. Leave a review if you’re loving it, or if one episode resonated with you, I would love to hear it. Also, come and join our sober mom life group on Facebook. That’s where all of these wonderful moms are. That’s where we’re talking about sobriety all day long throughout the day. It’s just a wonderful place to check in and just listen to other people’s stories and conversations. I’m also starting a weekly meeting over there, so be sure and come and join us. It’s a sober mom life on Facebook. Also, come and follow me, the sober mom life on Instagram and the sober mom life pod on TikTok. Come and say hi, and let me know what you think about the show. And I hope you enjoy this episode with Jamie. Hey, we are here. We’re here with Jamie, another real sober mom. Jamie, I’m so glad you’re here. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to have a chat today.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yes, me too. Okay, so let’s start. Just tell us a little bit about yourself and then before we talk about sobriety and where you’re at with that. Let’s talk about your drinking story.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
My drinking story. You know, it, it’s good having this conversation because it forced me to look at my drinking story. It’s not something often that we stop and we pause and think about. You know, for me, I come from a very large, mostly Polish and Italian family here in the Midwest. Drinking is a normal part of society. I say there’s a bar almost on every corner. You know, there’s a very chill vibe when it comes to drinking. So for me, it, it was just a part of life, and I probably didn’t start attempting to taste alcohol until I was about in eighth grade, and it was just taking sips off bottles and just kind of giggling about it. And by the time I was in high school, I would say is when drinking really kind of picked up social pressure or whatnot. It just, I think a normal part of experimenting in high school is really when, um, that, that had started for me.
And I never cared for the taste of alcohol, especially as a kid, but I learned really quick. I could metabolize alcohol very well. That was a flex. It was, Hey, I can, I can hang. I, I, you know, I’ll be one of the last ones standing here. And, you know, because it was such a normal part of life, my consumption never was questioned by me or anybody else. Everything was hunky dorian and great carrying on with my life. But for, for me, my journey with sobriety really started about a year ago when a very, very dear friend of mine lost his life to suicide. He, I know, had been struggling with a multitude of things, but addiction and drinking was one of ’em. And he had tried multiple times his hand at sobriety and ultimately would go back. So his death rocked my world. And so it made me really take inventory of myself and say, okay, when somebody is struggling, we’re so quick to say, you know, eat better, move your body, stop drinking, get some friends, find a new activity.
But most of the time, even though well-intentioned, we aren’t doing those things in our own lives. Yeah, right. So his passing really made me take some inventory. And mind you, I’d also been running a holistic health and wellness center for about a decade leading up campus <laugh>. Ok. Yeah. So I knew I was helping people, um, go through these things, but what was I doing in my own life? So April 17th was actually the first day, the day after Easter. I was like, I’m gonna start a 30 day challenge in my friend’s honor. I’m gonna step away from alcohol to empathize what he experienced in his journey. And as I e entered that and through today, now I’m pushing seven months, uh, being, uh, sober and loving it. And the farther I get away from alcohol, the more apparent the issues are with alcohol and drinking. Yeah. So I stumbled across you and your podcast and your group, and it’s just been such an incredible community to relate and to share and to do that. So it’s been an interesting <laugh> an in interesting journey. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah. It’s, it sounds like losing your friend, which I’m so sorry. Um, that was a heartbreaking thing. But the fact that it caused you to then look inward and say like, wait a second, what is my relationship with alcohol when you’re Right. Like in the Midwest, we don’t do that. Yeah. We don’t look at it because it’s everywhere. It’s like, does a fish know it’s wet? Yeah. It’s like that’s, it’s just all over Yes. Around here. And I like how you said like, even having this conversation today kind of forced you to say like, what is my relationship with alcohol? What is my alcohol journey? So you did that first 30 days. How did you feel in that 30 days?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
<laugh>, the first 30 days, I would even say the first almost 90 days was pretty brutal. The cravings and the voice inside our head that tells us, why are you doing this? You know, I would sit there, I’d be getting ready for the day with the voice in my head, like, why are you doing this? You don’t have a problem. You, everything’s great. Like, what, what, what’s your deal? Like, just go have a drink. Go have a glass of wine. You know? So it was really, really hard. And as I stuck with it, I, I would love to say that it became easy. It did eventually. Um, and I’m still in infancy, but it was hard and it made me, uh, have to sit with my feelings and really take a look at what is going on and the best way I can put it. Now, what I realized is, I don’t know if you or anybody listening to this has ever seen Percy Jackson.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Okay. I haven’t seen it. Tell me. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (09:19):
You have not. Okay. But there’s a part of the movie, they’re all stuck in a casino, make it really thing long, thing short, and they keep eating. They are handed these lotus flowers, and when you eat the lotus flower, you lose all sense of time. You think you’re in this euphoric state and you get stuck in this place. And as I was traveling my journey, that scene kept coming to my mind where I was like, wow, that’s really what alcohol is, is it’s this tool that we’re being fed that gives us a false reality, a sense of euphoria, and keeps us stuck. That was really what anchored me and kept me moving forward, is because then my mind instantly goes to, well, why did somebody want me to be stuck and not be seen? What’s going on in my life and who is like trying to get me to not look
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Yeah. Who benefits from that? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Right. Yeah. So, um, those first 30 days in particular were, I just kept thinking, wow, I get it Now. I get why it’s so hard for anybody to step away from alcohol.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
I like that you said that because you sound like now in your sobriety journey, you’re seven months, you’re, you’re firmly in it. You’re, you’re seeing the brighter side of it. But I like that you highlighted in that first 30 days, and you even said 90 days, you do kind of doubt the whole thing. You’re like, I like, as the hangover dissolves, a lot of time, sodas are commitment to not drinking alcohol. It’s like, oh, well that’s, it wasn’t that bad. And like you compare yourselves to these like rock bottom stories and it’s like, well, I wasn’t that bad. Right? And so then you, you kind of forget about the effects of alcohol and what alcohol did to you until you really start taking that deep dive into being like, okay, let me just see what role alcohol has played in my life. Has it added anything? And maybe it has at so times, but what has it also taken away? And I think until you start looking at that, yeah, that doubt definitely creeps in.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Absolutely. And one of the, I love that you said that because the biggest thing was I did stop and say, what does alcohol bring into my life? There’s nothing. And oftentimes I think the first thought is, well, I’m more introverted. People think I’m very outgoing, but I’m very introverted. And people say, well, it, it’s a tool so that when I’m in the company of individuals, I can be relaxed and I could, you know, communicate better. And I stopped and even looked at that and said, but wait a minute. If you’re in the company of somebody that you can’t be fully yourself in that company, is that really serving you? That’s not, that’s it’s making you, it’s giving you a false identity that now you have to continue to maintain in these circles to fit what other people want from you.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Right. And at least for me, I mean, I would say things that I would never say when I wasn’t drinking that feels worse than just feeling uncomfortable and being awkward. Like I would take being socially awkward and uncomfortable any day over the shame and guilt I would feel about acting like someone I wasn’t.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yes. 2000000%. And if it, it’s like, if it wasn’t for the pause, I think it’s, it’s almost to what we’re saying, like, what is your relationship or your story with alcohol? It’s almost like you can’t even get to the story until you separate yourself. Because you have to look at it from an external viewpoint and say, okay, what is going on? And that’s what continues to drive me is because I did remember the times where I did really stupid things or I said things that I really regretted the next day. And I also homeschool my kids <laugh>. And so it was, even if you’re having a cocktail with dinner the next morning, I would not like wake up skipping down the street ready to tackle my day. And so that separation made me really go, wow, <laugh>, whoa. And I’m feeling the effects of having energy and having clarity and feeling grounded and not having that anxious depressive heaviness around me.
And that continues to drive me forward. Anytime I did get a craving, I would say to myself, what good will come of drinking? I will probably have, I don’t know, 30 minutes of feeling good before I want the next drink. And one of the things I heard, I don’t know who said it, I heard it out there in the cosmos, was that when you have your first sip of alcohol and it hits your body and gives you kind of that warm feeling where you’re like, Ugh, every sip of alcohol after that, you’re chasing that first feeling of ugh, and it never comes again.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
No. And it never does. It’s like that first 20 minutes where alcohol’s delivering what you think it’s going to Right. And you’re like, yes, this is what I’ve been waiting for. And then that wears off and, and yeah, then you’re constantly then the rest of the night trying to get that feeling because that felt so good and you’re not, you’re not gonna get it.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yes. 2000000%. So those are those things that continue to drive me. Obviously I do this in my friend’s honor, but even more than that, I do it for me cuz like I’m innately, like, once I know something, I can’t unknow it. I can’t just push back and hide into the bushes and disappear. Like if I know something I am going to keep pushing forward. I can’t unknow it. Thankfully I am like that to keep moving forward because it’s very, very easy to go right back. And I see it time and time again and the story shared and the sober mom life, you know, and I empathize with that because it is so hard to stay the past, stay the course.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
And I think that once you do get past it, I, I always say like, these 30 day challenges or whatever, like it does feel to me like you’re running, cuz I’m a runner and the first two miles are always just shit <laugh>. Like, I always feel like shit, they’re the worst. Like, I’m like, why am I doing this? Ugh. I, I just wanna walk, I just wanna stop. Like the first two miles of literally every run, that’s what’s going through my head. And then something happens after those two miles and I settle in and my body is not freaking out anymore. My heart rate comes down, my mind quiets and I’m like, oh, okay, now I feel like I could go for 10 more miles. And I feel like the 30 day challenge is like those first two miles of like, you’re doing the hardest part over and over and over and you’re not getting to this like where you are now, the seven months, the year, the two years where way really does lead on to way in sobriety. And you start getting these tools, you start feeling just how you were meant to feel without alcohol. You start trusting yourself and how wonderful that feels. But you, that doesn’t come in the first 30 days.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Absolutely. And I, I love that analogy. And for me, so my background, I said I had that holistic center, I’m an energy medicine practitioner. And so like through this, I say that because through this process I realized why I was drinking when I started drinking. So I was born with the ability <laugh> to see and experience and understand energy in all its forms.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Oh my gosh, I love that. I need like a healing session. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
It’s, it’s great. But being young, being a teenager, even in my twenties and thirties walking around and being able to experience all of this and needing something to turn it off, alcohol was the only thing.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
So you can feel, you could feel other people’s energies even at that young age. Oh yeah. You kind of just so you would like take their energy on
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yes. Quite literally. I, I explain it to people, it’s like Alice going down the rabbit hole. It, you know, that’s my normal life where I can look around and I can see the colors and I can feel the energy and I can not only see and feel it, but interpret it and understand it. And so as a younger me, I could get these downloads and understand it, but yet I was young. I didn’t have the wisdom to really understand what was being said or coming through that. Yeah, yeah. But alcohol was my only sure thing that could completely tune it all out. Yeah. And I still felt like the bubbly me, but without the energy. So I say that even now on my journey, it’s been an interesting thing to learn, to navigate that and say, okay, well man, I really need to learn how to deal with this in all situations and understand and love myself even more. So I know we say those self-care and self-love, those are common things to say. But really truly, without implementing that to a very massive extent in my life, in this journey, I would not be able to sit here and be talking to you today.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
It’s interesting because as you’re talking about, you know, feeling people’s energies and taking it on, it does remind me just the role of a mom. We have to absorb our children’s energy all the time. Like, you know, tantrums, we have to, we have to figure out how to divert the energy, change energy. Like how are we dealing with their energy? How do we not match their energy so that we also freak out? And so yeah, those are all tools that, well, normally, you know, moms would turn to alcohol to do the same thing you were doing, which is to just quiet the shit. Right. And just like, oh my God, I need everything to quiet down. And so it is like, you’re having to do that in your practice and in your job all the time, every day of like, okay, I can no longer quiet this energy down. I can no longer escape from it. And so what, what do you do then as a mom too, like in the witching hour and when you’re feeling your kid’s energy and they’re losing their shit cuz you know, the witching hour’s a like a huge trigger for a lot of
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Moms. It’s a huge trigger and you know, I, I can answer that, but yet on the same token, I can’t because my children are older now.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Okay. But still, don’t you think there’s still a witching hour then?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I do, and I don’t because it’s different because with homeschooling it, homeschooling changed our lives for the better.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
You homeschool moms are heroes because I have no idea how you do it,
Speaker 2 (20:18):
But it’s amazing. And so what I do and I do with if I’m working with somebody or my children or whomever is around me, is I’m constantly kind of like a private investigator. I’m kind of always exploring and saying, okay, what is going on here? I really work on balancing that out and using the tools I have with them. So I see that the energy’s about to implode in the house. I’m like, all right, let’s get our hiking shoes on. Let’s grab the dog. We’re gonna gonna go outside and we’re gonna go march it out. And being able to hold and anchor my own energy is vital in that because we as parents can’t help and assist our kids until we are centered and grounded. And I think that’s why witching our is so overwhelming for, for most. So I have learned to say, okay, I need to take the deep breath, I need to get centered myself so that I can be wholly present with my children and what they’re bringing forth. And I say all of this and not in a cloud of perfection. Like, you know, I have my moments where I lose my shit or I’m like, whoa, I put myself in a timeout.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yes. Because I say like, we, we also go through our own. I go through a witching hour at 5:00 PM like sensory overload, like lights drive me crazy, noise drives me. Like I can feel my skin crawling. I can feel like I’m about to lose my shit. And so, yeah, I think in sobriety you’re able to hear those cues and know what you need and be like, oh right, this is where I need,
Speaker 2 (21:55):
It’s true. And so it’s, that’s what we have to teach our children as well. When I was drinking and I had the escape of grabbing a glass of wine or doing that, I was just pushing it away. And, you know, and to be honest, like even with starting this sobriety journey, I really had to face my deep guilt that I was carrying as a parent for that. I, even though I would like tune out with wine, at the end of the day, I knew I wasn’t living up to my motherly potential with my children. You know, I had to reconcile and make amends with that. But now it’s, I take what I know and what I see and understand and I pass that along to my children. And we talk a lot about self-regulation and the emotional system and the nervous system and how does energy and emotion play out onto our body and what are good coping skills?
Because my gosh, life is not gonna be this euphoric, peaceful, skip down the street, always happy experience. And if we can say, Hey, we’re gonna experience the hard stuff, but we’re gonna embrace it and we’re gonna use it as an opportunity to grow, you know, how can we best do that and interact? So that’s how I, I kind of almost, it’s like almost like taking charge of the house. I think before I felt victim of the house and victim of my kids and I was like, oh my God. And now I’m like, Hey, I gotta take charge of my house. <laugh>.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yes. Oh my God, I love that because I, I always think about this idea, like, our kids do match our energy. Yes. Right? So we can either match theirs and we can like go in on the tantrum and yell and don’t, I mean, this does not mean that I don’t yell because I do yell like as some days I just lose my shit and that’s okay. Cuz I’m human. We all
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Do <laugh>, but
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah. But like, I have so found that when my kid is throwing a tantrum, if I just sit with it and know that this tantrums not gonna kill me, like I, I can weather it, it’s fine. I don’t have to match energies and if I’m c if I remain calm, like they are eventually gonna match my energy. And that’s, that’s like overall, that’s like the mom being the center of the home.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yes. Amen. I really think that is, especially for obviously women, um, that usually run the home and that the overwhelm is that because we feel, I don’t, you know, victimize, we feel like, oh my God, this is happening to me and I don’t know what to do. And we feel ill-equipped, let’s be honest, we have a kid and they’re like, here you go. Like,
Speaker 1 (24:30):
We are, we’re overwhelmed, we’re burnt out. We’re, a lot of us are on our own throughout the day. Like, we’re like, we’re tired. And that’s why when someone posted on in our group, like, why is the witching hour so hard? I’m like, because you’re so
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Tired, you’re exhausted.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
It’s the same reason it’s hard for your kids. Like the end of the day we’re all just like, ugh, done. And the thing is like if wine helped that, I’d be like, yep, that is the number one tool. You know what I mean? If it helped, but it doesn’t. It doesn’t. And not only does it not help, it makes it harder, which I’m like, this shit’s hard enough. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Absolutely. I, I look at that, I’m like, you know, my kids need me. And so I had like a come to Jesus moment with myself where I’m like, okay. I looked myself in the mirror and I was like, okay, you have no shit clue what you’re doing. You have never done this before. You have never raised humans before, but you’ll figure it out. Like just step up. And I think that is the first way out is just saying, okay, I’m just gonna step up to the plate and say, all right, I’m gonna figure this out. I know I’m capable, I know I can find a way, it’s gonna be challenging, but I’m gonna find a way <laugh> to take charge and take ownership of this family, guiding this family where it needs to, to be and go. And so now it’s at a point where, you know, my number one cheerleader in this whole process has been my youngest son.
He’s the one checks in with me every day. He’s like, how’s it going mom? And he, I was proud of me and celebrate, you know, my husband and other son do too. Absolutely. But he’s this driving force and so the farther I go into sobriety, the more I’m like, oh my gosh, these kids need me to help shape and guide. And wonderfully, I feel in today’s day and age, more and more people are moving to an alcohol free lifestyle. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, you know, I look at them on the, my eldest is on the cusp of high school and I’m like, okay. That’s when I started really drinking and the partying started happening where I’m like, okay, they need me to emulate what it looks like to go through life sober. That you can still be fun, you can still be badass, you can still do the things you wanna do. Like I said, growing up in a huge family and in the Midwest and all those things, I never had a model of what that looked like.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Totally. I didn’t even know that was an option.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Oh, it wasn’t. So I’m like sober. I’m like, oh yeah, no, peace out. I’m over here. Like I
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Know sober, sober meant rehab and you know, sober living and alcoholics and all of like, did Meg Ryan in when a man loves a woman? Yeah. Like
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Speaker 1 (27:21):
What that meant and that just wasn’t
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah. Right. You know, so, you know, that’s a motivator for me to keep going is that my children need me to be that light for them and that guide for them and to show them away and bonus, I feel great in the process and I’m growing. Yeah. Versus, you know, sitting on the sidelines just drowning out the voice with the alcohol and being like, oh, okay, it’s fine. Kids are gonna drink and this is gonna happen. And just kind of taking the backseat. That’s for me, I think really what alcohol did, and like I said, for all of the reasons I named alcohol worked for me, but I was, I I was on the sidelines of my life.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
It sounds like you’re just so proactive now rather than passive and letting, letting motherhood and life pass you by, it’s like, wait a second. Like, I’m not gonna fall victim to the witching hour. I’m not gonna fall victim to the whims and the energy of my kids. Like I’m gonna set the energy and I’m gonna Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah. And you know what? And there’s, you know, there’s days where I do give into the energy and I do have my tantrums. Yeah. And those are the
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I love myself anyway.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah. Well the thing is like removing alcohol removes a whole lot of guilt. If I would lose my shit and like yell at my kids, even if I had just a glass of wine, I would think that, oh God, like that guilt would just come into it. That guilt. I mean, I would already feel guilty about yelling, but then on top of that, the alcohol, like removing that just removes that whole layer of guilt. Sure. I still feel guilty about yelling, but then I can go back and say, Ugh, sorry, I yelled. Yeah, sorry, I yelled like I, I I shouldn’t have yelled and keep it moving. But it’s not that alcohol isn’t just nowhere in the equation that feels so
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Good. And it is it because I think without alcohol you authentically know what you’re feeling as you feel it. And alcohol, once it’s introduced, you have no idea what’s really the feeling and what’s authentic. There’s days we have tantrums, but, you know, extend ourselves, grace and yeah. Move forward. And what a beautiful model for children.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Ugh. Okay. Jamie, your energy, I mean, I sign me
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Up. Well, thank you for having me and having this conversation. It’s so important. And I love that you’re like sharing everybody’s perspectives and everybody’s getting a taste. Cuz I think we think we all relate to each other and the power of story is where the healing is at.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
I think it’s so true. And you know, I’ve talked to so many moms now, but you guys each bring your own twist and you, you have these own lessons that you learn in sobriety and they’re so valuable and I, I, I just wanna put them all out there in the world. This only normalizes this idea that it’s not about church basements and alcoholism and aa, like there’s something in between. And these are all of those in between stories and then benefiting from sobriety. And I just, I love it.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I love it. I love that you’re doing this. Thank
Speaker 1 (30:19):
You Jamie. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Sober Mom Life. If you loved it, please rate and review it wherever you listen. Five stars is amazing. Also, follow me on Instagram at the sober mom life. Okay. I’ll see you next week. I’m gonna go reheat my coffee. Bye. Hi,
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Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah. We might not break the political and pop culture news of the week,
Speaker 3 (31:18):
But we put it right back together for you. That’s
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Right. Listen, wherever you find your favorite podcasts.