Recovery Is The New Black with Michelle Smith


September 12, 2022

Michelle Smith’s sobriety didn’t come from one rock bottom moment. Her bad experiences with alcohol piled up over time until one insignificant day when she just woke up and said, “I’m taking my life back.” 

Through committed discipline, learning how to sit with her feelings, and discovering the right resources to support her, Michelle was able to take steps towards the vision of who she wanted to be.

Today, Michelle finds herself committed to being a resource for other women who are living or exploring alcohol-free lifestyles inside of the  online community she founded, Recovery is the New Black. 

Learn more about Michelle Smith:



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Speaker 1 (00:00):

I wish more people would listen to our podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:02):

I know. I feel like this is why we need to do an ad. So this is an ad for brand new information, a pop culture and political podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:10):

We’re a couple Gen Xers who talk about pop culture and political stuff on the brand new information pop culture and political podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:19):

Okay. But we’re not a couple we’re siblings. It sounded like you said we’re a couple <laugh>. That was so gross. No, we’re siblings. That’s my brother. I’m his sister. Listen to us wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi. Welcome to the Sober Mom Life podcast. I’m your host Suzanne of my kind of suite and the sober mom life on Instagram. If you are a mama who has questioned your relationship with alcohol at times, if you’re wondering if maybe it’s making motherhood harder, this is for you. I will be having candid, honest, funny conversations with other moms who have also thought, Hmm, maybe motherhood is better without alcohol. Is it possible? We’ll chat and we’ll talk about all things sobriety and how we’ve found freedom in sobriety. I don’t consider myself an alcoholic. You don’t have to either, and maybe life is brighter without alcohol. I hope you will join us on this journey and I’m so excited to get started.

All right, you guys, today I have Michelle from Recovery is The New Black, which how amazing is that name? She’s that on Instagram. That is her website. She is a breath of fresh air. She shares her rock bottom story. I, I love how she crosses over from AA to then also talking about the sober curious movement. She’s just so inspiring. I love that she’s an alcohol and drug counselor. That is her real job. She also does a coaching thing for people who wanna really explore their relationship with alcohol and if they’re sober, curious. You guys, I keep having amazing conversations with amazing women, and this was definitely one of those. I think you will love it so much. Don’t forget, come and join the Silver Mom Life Group on Facebook. If you want to connect with other sober and sober curious moms, that is the place no boys allowed.

It’s a very safe space. I look forward to seeing the posts. I, every morning when I wake up, it’s the first thing I check. I’m like, What? What are the moms up to today? It’s just, they’re so supportive and the inspiring and I love it so much. Also, I have merch, guys. I have merch. I’ll link it in the show notes. We have a sober mom mug. We have a no more anxiety mug. I’m gonna be making more too. There’s some cute sober mom teas and a hoodie. A lot of good stuff, guys. So I hope you enjoy this episode with Michelle. All right, We’re here. Michelle from Recoveries The New Black. I am so glad you’re here. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (03:16):

Thank you for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

Speaker 2 (03:19):

I know, and you’re all rested from your vacation. I mean, as rested as you can be from a vacation when you come back home to the craziness.

Speaker 3 (03:27):

Yes. I’m telling you though, that sober vacations never get old.

Speaker 2 (03:32):

Oh my God. That is literally, I thought about that cuz we just got back from Laguna Beach and I was like, I told my husband, I was like, Oh my God, do you know what a sober vacation feels like? It feels like a vacation. Like it feels like, Oh, this is how vacation is supposed to feel.

Speaker 3 (03:50):

Absolutely not. The uptight anxiety when you wake up in the morning. Oh my God, I used to have these like really strict itineraries. We have to get this done, we have to do that. And I was like, Let’s just roll with it. Yeah. You know, let’s just see what we wanna do and you know, what the weather looks like and what we’re in the mood to do. And just that sense of ease, not only for myself, but the pressure it takes off my husband and my children.

Speaker 2 (04:16):

Oh yeah. It’s huge, huge, huge. And then you can see how you feel and you can actually know how you feel because you’re sober, so you’re so in tune with your body and you’re like, Oh, I know what I need right now. Oh, I love it. Okay, Well let’s, before we get into everything, I want you to kind of introduce yourself. Tell us all all about you, and then we’ll go into your drinking story before we go into all the sobriety. Goodness.

Speaker 3 (04:42):

Yes. So I am Michelle. I’m the founder of Recovery as the New Black, which is at a digital community for women, especially mothers who are living or exploring an alcohol free life. And I do that just nationally. I’m starting to do that internationally, speaking on stages, writing books, really recovering out loud because I know what it was like of living in secrecy, isolation as a person that had a really high profile public position for 20 years working in the government field. Oh wow. And yeah, and you know, it’s like professionals aren’t supposed to, you know, have substance abuse problems or mental illness and you know, which we’ll get into later of doctors and pilots and lawyers and teachers. This disease does not discriminate and nobody is immune. So not only is it a stigmatized and taboo topic, but it’s also that extra layer of, wait, we’re, you’re a professional that we are entrusting in and we have to know that you’re healthy and stable.

And so, you know, really trying to get the message out as as simple as possible, but not also, my goal is to not ever, ever, I’m never anti drinking. I always say I, I am pro sobriety because I don’t want people to get intimidated by that because yeah, what comes to mind is always, Oh, well you’re just an alcoholic or you can’t handle your booze. You’re a buzz kill. And it’s like, you know what, this is this like this ladder or this elevator of addiction and I can get off at any level or any floor that I want to. I don’t have to wait for this rock bottom. But when I get into my story, you know, I had multiple rock bottoms that you think that I would surrender in my life would’ve changed forever and it didn’t. Yeah. And so that’s my mis, like my mission and my message is simply to empower women that motherhood is really, really hard.

And we’re told that drinking helps and that wasn’t my truth. It really made things a lot harder and heavier in my life. And so for me to be that person that says, You know what, I’m gonna pass on booze tonight. I hope that that empowers another person to say, I’ll take a diet Coke with a lime as well. Yeah. And just to see that there’s just so much more to life. And so that’s, as you can tell, what I’m super passionate about, what I’ve gone to school to do, what I’ve been educated in, and those to show that I can tell you exactly what to do to stabilize mental health and not to fall into the disease of addiction. And I did.

Speaker 2 (07:20):

Yeah. That’s so interesting. I mean, there’s so much there. Okay. So if you wanna open up about your drinking story and did you go to aa, Like, let’s talk about all of that too, because I think, I always think that’s so interesting, you know, kind of my stance on AA because I, it just doesn’t resonate with me. But then I Yeah, I have so many questions about it. So what’s your kind of drinking story before you realized, holy shit, you know, this is becoming a problem.

Speaker 3 (07:49):

Right. It really just started when I became a mother, to be honest with you. I was greeted to the hospital as I had my daughter with eight bottles of, of liquor and it was wine and champagne.

Speaker 2 (08:03):


Speaker 3 (08:03):

Yeah. The message was, motherhood is really hard and drinking helps.

Speaker 2 (08:08):


Speaker 3 (08:09):

I come from a really long line of alcoholism. And so I always, I grew up knowing that I had the perfect example of what not to be. And so that really kept me on the straight narrow, wanting to excel, wanting to outlive a lot of my family members that died to the disease of addiction. And so there wasn’t a lot of education. My mom would tell me, If you drink and drive, I’m not gonna bail you outta jail.

Speaker 2 (08:38):

Okay. <laugh>, that was a hard line.

Speaker 3 (08:40):

So that was kind of her little talk. Right. And so it was just like, you know, they were a bunch of doctors and it was very much, we’re gonna keep this quiet, you know, we don’t talk about this kind of stuff. And so it just really kept them sick into their disease. Yeah. And so that was kind of a memo in the message I got growing up. And so fast forward to having children and this idea of what motherhood, modern day motherhood looks like. Yeah. I would scroll through social media as it was becoming a thing in like 2000. Oh it was oh nine.

Speaker 2 (09:12):

Okay. And

Speaker 3 (09:14):

It was Pinterest, everything. It was these curated homes of these matching children’s outfits and

Speaker 2 (09:21):

Oh yes.

Speaker 3 (09:22):

It was just like, I’m like, I am trying to learn how to breastfeed. My mom just died as I’m becoming a mother. Oh no. My husband goes to war. I didn’t know I had postpartum depression at the time. I was literally felt like I was at my lowest darkest loneliest moment in time. Yeah. And so as I’m scrolling these social media feeds, I’m seeing that, oh, it’s one o’clock and yoga and wine. And this is a great coping tool to take that stressful rough edges off this hard day.

Speaker 2 (09:54):

And you’re searching for anything, Right. You anything, anything like anything to make it easier and to just take that edge off and Yeah. So you can totally understand why, you know, that’s what caught you.

Speaker 3 (10:09):

Yep. And it’s this vicious cycle that it’s, you know, it starts out any addiction starts out super, super small and very innocent. You know, it was a glass of wine. Oh you can pump and dump and you know, the whole spiel. Yeah. And eventually it’s like, well, you know, today’s really hard. I think I’m gonna do a glass and a half. Mm-hmm. Or I’m gonna use the rest out of this cooking wine that I’m marinating my chicken in. And it just continues to escalate. And what I noticed in hindsight looking back, is that what I was doing is I was obviously replacing natural coping tools with the bottle and it was so much easier than taking it a break and going for a walk and decompressing.

Speaker 2 (10:53):


Speaker 3 (10:53):

You know, in sort a few years and I was starting to drink so much that people were starting to notice and say, Hey, you know, I think your drinking’s escalating. What do you, what do you think, how do you feel about talking to your doctor?

Speaker 2 (11:09):

So who was saying that to you? Who around you? Was it your husband? Was it, who kind of noticed first? Like, wait a second.

Speaker 3 (11:16):

Great question. It was, it was my husband. Okay. It was my mother-in-law, my two sisters and a couple coworkers.

Speaker 2 (11:24):

Okay. I mean, that’s pretty amazing and incredible that you have such a village that felt comfortable enough to talk to about it. I think. Yes, because I think a lot of stories there isn’t someone who steps in kind of, not that it was early, but before it’s, you know, you’re losing everything.

Speaker 3 (11:43):

Right. The only problem was, is that I was in denial and I became resentful because how dare you tell me about my drinking? Um, you doing the same thing. And you know, obviously I wish I could go back and have a different attitude and mindset, but when we start to, you

Speaker 2 (12:01):

Just weren’t ready.

Speaker 3 (12:01):

Yeah. And when you fall into addiction, you’re gonna protect it at all costs and you’re gonna minimize it. And that’s what I did. And that was the turning point to where it really went downhill really quick. Because if I didn’t wanna hear people nagging at me, I’m not gonna do it in your presence. So yeah. I’m gonna start secret drinking literally in my closet hiding bottles. But you can’t hide behavior. Right, Right. And so my extra walks during the night was as I would stash bottles and you know, bushes and trees at my park. I mean, just the craziest places where I knew what I was doing was not okay. But I just didn’t know. I didn’t think I was that bad to go to somewhere like Alcoholics Anonymous. I didn’t wanna go to treatment. I didn’t think it was that bad yet. And I didn’t wanna lose my job. Yeah. You’re just in this place where you’re like, I’m a relatively intelligent person, I’m educated, I’m strong in a lot of areas. Why can’t I get this right? Why is this thing having such a hold on me?

Speaker 2 (13:07):

And so you did get it. It was to that point where you were saying, I know I’m drinking too much. Were you physically addicted?

Speaker 3 (13:16):

I, yeah, I would say that I was, you know,

Speaker 2 (13:18):

And so you kind of knew, you were like, I know I’m drinking too much, but I just either don’t wanna stop or don’t know how to, and like that AA thing, it’s like, is that what I have to do? Like, do I have to declare myself an alcoholic? Right. That’s a, that seems like a big step.

Speaker 3 (13:32):

Big huge when you’re still trying to sort it out. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s where I was is I was like, well what do, I can figure this out on my own and I can figure out that there’s a third door to moderation, you know? And I just stayed on that hamster wheel and it’s like the devil in the angel, I’m feeling really good. I’m gonna go to work, I’m gonna feel great. I’m gonna hit the gym at a time. Five o’clock came around, all that went out the window. Yeah. It was just like, I am at the store, I’ve been hijacked, I know what I’m getting. No phone list, no meeting, no friend is going to stop me.

Speaker 2 (14:08):


Speaker 3 (14:09):

I really struggled with the whole spectrum of normie to alcoholism and where do you go? Alcoholics Anonymous. Right.

Speaker 2 (14:18):

Yeah. Right. Was there a rock bottom that it was like very clear to you and everyone else like this has to change? Or was it kind of an inner knowing of Okay. I think, Or was it both?

Speaker 3 (14:28):

It was both. For me, I tried alcoholics synonymous initially and you know, for me, just declaring that I was an alcoholic when I didn’t truly believe it. And really seeing of course the resistance of I’m not gonna look for the similarities, I’m gonna look for the differences. And yeah, this hasn’t happened yet and I haven’t lost my kids or my job or my husband or my self respect completely. Where it’s like I felt like there was just two buckets that I had to choose. And so my rock bottom, which I think everybody’s is so different, me ending up in the hospital four times with fatal alcohol poisoning when I worked at that hospital. So my team that I work with is covered over me.

Speaker 2 (15:07):

Oh wow.

Speaker 3 (15:07):

Trying to save my life. And it’s like not only did my two worlds just collide, but you would think that this is the moment that I surrendered and that I decided that my life was going to be forever changed. And I wish that I could sit here and tell you that that was my truth. Yeah. And it wasn’t. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I did end up going to treatments in patient treatment and I had the privilege and, and the honor of being able to do that, which a lot of people can’t. Yeah. Of course. Bought tooth and nail. I can’t leave my kids. Yeah. You know, I’ll lose my job. Well Michelle, you’re gonna lose your job if you don’t go. Right. And so you just kind of, the more you more I drank, the more I saw the evidence and the proof that this is having a hold on me more and more and more. Because nobody could tell me what my relationship with alcohol was like until I saw this for myself and I wanna change to occur. So when Child Protective Services got involved and they’re like, are neglecting your children. Yeah, I understand that you’re a great mom, but you’re under the influence when you’re caring for them. Which means that’s neglect. Mama Bear came out real quick protecting my kids. I am a great mom. I need to get my stuff together.

Speaker 2 (16:24):

Okay. So was that the final straw? That was the thing that that made you say, Okay, wait a second. It’s time.

Speaker 3 (16:30):

Yeah, I mean that was definitely, that didn’t stop my drinking again, but each of these things led to this moment that people just wait for this epiphany. Yeah. And it’s like, it’s all these little things that are like connected that just lead to one day. It’s like people will say like, it’s been lifted or I’ve surrendered or I’ve given, you know, my power over to somebody else. And for me, I literally woke up the day of Thanksgiving in 2016 and said, I’m done. I will never ever have another drop of alcohol ever again. Wow. And it was nothing significant. I wasn’t gonna wait for a Monday or a new year or a new month or dry January or dry July. It was literally, this is significant because this is the day I’m taking my life

Speaker 2 (17:19):

Back. Wow. I got chills. I <laugh>, I always love these, You know, everyone’s story is so different. Everyone’s sobriety is different. Everything that they get out of it is different. But this is probably the common thread is that moment. And it’s always like leading up to that. Like, I know it’s coming, but I, it just like, I love hearing it. I get chills every time. It’s so interesting that it is kind of, it sounds like it’s like little building blocks up to that, that moment. And so it’s not the earth shattering event that kinda makes you stop right there, but that is a really big building block to get up to that moment of that inner knowing of, Oh, I’m done.

Speaker 3 (18:00):

Yep. And you know, I was told by somewhat somebody wise in the, in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous that you know, with the time you walk into the rooms and the, the time it takes you to get into inpatient treatment and leave like the whatever it takes, Right. It is literally you’re hearing the same thing. It’s the only differences is you’re ready to hear it. You’re ready to embrace the fact that my life is better without alcohol in it. It is costing me more of an, it is providing me and there is nothing healthy that this substance is doing to better my life, my mental health or my family structure. And those are the questions I’m so empowered to ask people because putting yourself into a box and and getting a label attached to your forehead is very stigmatizing to people and it makes you feel small.

Yeah. I am absolutely an alcoholic. I can admit that I do participate in alcoholics synonymous at some level, but I have so many other multifactors that I call pathways to recovery and patchwork that depending on the season for me is what I’m needing more of. Whether that’s mental health or you know, religion or you know, whatever it is that keeps me motivated to living my truth and showing up to live my best life. So that’s gonna look different. But you know, I think it’s just that moment that you are ready to hear your seeing the impact that this substance is having on you and the people that you love and people like you and I were saying, you know what, for the health of it,

Speaker 2 (19:36):


Speaker 3 (19:37):

You don’t have to drink, you know, and having the Cancer Society come out the American Cancer Society, no amount of alcohol is good for you. So these doctors are not gonna say a glass of wine is great for you. And if they do run,

Speaker 2 (19:52):

Yeah, stop. Just stop. It is like cigarettes in the fifties, you know, <laugh>, it’s gonna be like in 20 years, hopefully not that long. But people are gonna look back and be like, Oh my God, how did anyone ever think that alcohol was good for you? Like that’s just not, Yeah. And so I’m so fascinated by the AA of it all because I’ve never set foot in an AA meeting and you know, I <laugh>, I get a lot of shit <laugh>, but I just, And you said like with the stigma of a label and it makes you feel small. And I think that as women especially and as moms especially, we know what feeling small feels like. I mean I have known that as a woman and as a mom. I think as a mom were put last on the list. Everyone like our needs as moms feel very small.

<laugh>, our everybody else’s needs come first. Like we are just last on the list by design. That’s kind of how it’s supposed to be even though that’s not good for us. And so like that is always kind of what I struggle with the idea of AA and I, I don’t think I would be as outspoken about it as I am if I didn’t get so much pushback from, and it’s generally men in AA calling me a dry drunk because I’m not working the steps and just wait, you’re gonna drink again. And so it’s that. And I know you kind of have that from the message that you share on Instagram. Like I see we’re kind of aligned in that idea of not putting ourselves in boxes of labeling and the stigma. And so how do you kind of grapple with that as you’re in those rooms? Yeah. How does that work? I wanna know <laugh>,

Speaker 3 (21:39):

You know, I mean it’s so different depending on which meeting you go to. And I think that’s why AA has such a bad, I mean for multiple reasons people struggle with it. But one of them is if you don’t like one of the meetings or go to a different one cuz they’re never gonna be the same.

Speaker 2 (21:55):


Speaker 3 (21:56):

But a lot of people are going there with an open mind or have been there for so long that literally that was the only program that was available to people and Totally you waited for that rock bottom so everybody that had a seat earned it, deserved it and was an alcoholic.

Speaker 2 (22:10):

Yeah. Right, right, right, right. There wasn’t anything else. Yeah, yeah. For sure.

Speaker 3 (22:15):

I remember going into my first AA meeting and I was drinking in the bathroom and went in there and this guy is just like, if you don’t stop, you’re gonna die. And I’m gonna pretend that there’s like this 40 in a bag right now. If you don’t stop, this is gonna be your, your drug of choice. Your drink of choice. And at this time I’m drinking top shelf, you know, all the good stuff. Right? The Yeah. $30 bottles of wine and the dirty martinis and there’s no way I am ever gonna hit a brown paper bag going to the mini martyr gas station. That’s where Michelle ended up doing Lee. Right. So it’s like eventually if there’s no intervention, there’s no education, there’s no community or support. Yes. Our addiction usually will continue to take us all to the same place.

Speaker 2 (23:04):

Totally. Cuz it’s an addictive substance. Like Right. You use it long enough,

Speaker 3 (23:08):

We’ll become addicted.

Speaker 2 (23:09):

Right. Anybody? Yes.

Speaker 3 (23:11):

Yep. So with this whole series Sober Curious movement, this is where it’s like inserts education awareness, having people say, You know what? It doesn’t feel good to me, not I’m tapping out because I can no longer handle it. And that’s the difference.

Speaker 2 (23:26):

Or because I have to Yes.

And I do, I, you know, I totally respect AA for people who, like you said, who needed it. Who that was the only thing that was there for them. I think that, and it, it’s generally men who are now, they don’t understand this kind of like middle ground of catching people, giving people a soft place to land before that rock bottom. And so like we’ve kind of inserted ourselves up here as like, I don’t even know if I’m a sobriety influencer, but whatever the term is Yeah. That we’re kind of like, okay guys, you know, here’s, here’s a soft little hammock that you that you can land on before you go down there. And they’re just kind of like, Hold on, wait, wait, what are you doing? Okay, so you’re not a real Right. You don’t really have a problem. It’s like well you’re missing the point.

Speaker 3 (24:19):

Exactly. Exactly. And there’s a softer place to land, which people can have conversations way earlier. And for you and I both having conversations about the dangers of alcohol is absolutely alcohol prevention. Yeah. That’s what it is. And we are showing people that it’s okay, you don’t have to wait. Right. And so when we’re talking about people who identify with Alcoholics Anonymous or who identify like me as an alcoholic, it’s like you can’t have a soft place. You can’t just kind

Speaker 2 (24:48):

Have one

Speaker 3 (24:49):

Foot in. Right. Right. It’s like for me, when I say I’m Michelle and I’m an alcoholic, like what I am meaning by that, what resonates with me is that if I pick up, I’m gonna die. I have to remember that this is poisoned because if I convince myself that it’s something different, I’ll go back to drinking.

Speaker 2 (25:06):


Speaker 3 (25:07):

And that’s, that’s what I have to take away with it.

Speaker 2 (25:09):

Yeah. That makes total sense. And and this idea that it is personalized and some people do, like, that’s a benchmark for you. You know what I mean? Like that’s a yes. This is, it’s kind of a, like a guidepost. Like the I’m an alcoholic and this is what’s that’s telling me and that’s working for you. And I think that that’s wonderful because I, I do think it’s whatever works for somebody. I, I can’t remember who said it. They were like, if standing on your head in the corner for, you know, two hours a day helps keep you from drinking alcohol, do it <laugh>. Like do it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:43):

Whatever works for one is not gonna work for the other. And you know, just again, having that soft approach of just, here’s a podcast, here’s a book, you know, here’s a news article, Here’s this gal on Instagram that is just killing it on, on sober vacations and has the, you have the trendiest most amazing clothes and ideas and it’s like, you’re making sober look amazing, sexy, fun. Moms are like, I wanna be, I wanna do more of what you’re doing.

Speaker 2 (26:09):

Yeah. Well I’m also like, if they can glamorize alcohol, I’m gonna glamorize the hell outta sobriety. Cuz sobriety’s way more glamorous than alcohol. PS you had the most amazing post. I can’t remember I was talking about it with someone and I had just pulled it up. You said, and this was so good on your Instagram, recovery is the new black, you said, Okay, have we ever seen an intoxicated person in an alcohol advertisement? Are they ashamed of their customers? That is so good and so fucking true. When they’re glamorizing alcohol, those people are not drinking alcohol.

Speaker 3 (26:47):

They’re not. And the, and the, the commercial, the Netflix series, the movie, it stops when the party is about to be over. It doesn’t show the mom wrapping herself around a telephone pole.

Speaker 2 (26:58):

Totally. That

Speaker 3 (26:59):

Doesn’t sell. Right. It’s not, we’re not gonna get into that part of, of what really happens. We’re just gonna stay here.

Speaker 2 (27:05):

Or even just like puking her guts out or nursing her baby drunk. All all of those things I’ve done. Not the telephone pole, but the baby in the, in the toilet. Like, that’s the reality of like telling moms that, you know, the answer to their stress is in the bottom of their wine glass. Like, that’s, that’s what happens. I I totally love what you’re doing. Okay. So tell me now, sober Michelle, sober, bright, lovely, gorgeous. Michelle, how has sobriety changed motherhood for you? Because I think your story’s really interesting in that like motherhood was kind of the catalyst for you to start drinking. And so you had the full idea of what drinking during motherhood looks like. And so now what does sobriety in motherhood look like?

Speaker 3 (27:51):

Such a great question. You know, the, the simplicity and the ease that it has provided me is priceless. My lack of needing to stay in control has deescalated, my anxiety has gone down. My hope and my willingness for so many things in the future have improved. I mean, my depression, I mean there’s, I mean there’s everything, but the most important part is that the presence that’s all my kids want is for mom to be present. And for me just to say, you know what, I’m closing my laptop down at five o’clock, switching my roles to mom mode, not feeling like cooking tonight. Like I used to cook those five course meals that nobody eats. Yeah. I’m gonna have food delivered and I am not gonna shame myself for this because it’s more important for me to have a little bit of psychological energy left to provide that love to my kids than it is to wrestle with cooking. Right. And triggering myself. Yes. So it’s like, you know, what priorities are gonna change And like we talked about modern day motherhood, we are not expected or we get to pick and choose. Do you work, do you raise your kids? A lot of us I know both of us, you do it all and you are expected to do it with a smile on your face and without complaining. And at the cost of what? For me, mental health, emotional health, spiritual health addiction, we cannot do it all. It is impossible without losing ourselves.

Speaker 2 (29:26):

No. Don’t even try. Oh my God. I’ll do, I I can’t. Like if that’s ever asked of me like how do you do it all? It’s like, I so don’t, I don’t even do like no <laugh>. I don’t even try.

Speaker 3 (29:38):

Yep. And especially when we were raised in a a, I was raised in an environment where it was just perfectionism. Yeah. And people pleasing. And so for me to ever use my drinking money in a different fashion of I’m gonna put this stuff in a mason jar to see how much I save, I ended up doing two things with it. I got a meal service for a couple days a week to have meals.

Speaker 2 (30:00):


Speaker 3 (30:01):

And I had a house cleaner. And I’m like, I feel like I’m judging myself. This is snooty all the things. Cause I can clean my own toilets, but you know, it’s a sa Yeah. It’s a trade off. It’s like, you know what, if this allows me five more hours of somebody else cleaning and helping me do the deep cleaning of my house, that I can have that time with my children, I’m gonna do it because I’m gonna get judged regardless if I’m drunk. Yeah. <laugh> or if I’m having a house cleaner. Like it, it doesn’t matter any more. Michelle. You have to allow people to just be who they are and say what they want because I can’t change their minds. They’re gonna like me or they’re not.

Speaker 2 (30:39):

I cannot, with the Karens on, I’m battling a few right now. <laugh>, I, I cannot With the Karens online. No. It, all of those people, all of the, like our housekeeper is one of like, she’s like family to me. We’ve had her for like 12 years. She’s a part of my village. Like she was the one who was here when I had to go into labor with my, with my third child. You know, like our nanny who’s downstairs right now, who is allowing me to even be up here in my closet to speak with you. Like I don’t do it all. Someone helps me with my kids, someone helps me with my house, someone helps me with our dog. Everything. Like, we need help.

Speaker 3 (31:14):

And that takes strength right there. That’s not you being lazy, that’s you knowing. Right. What you can do and what ba what you have the bandwidth for because

Speaker 2 (31:24):


Speaker 3 (31:25):

That’s what’s more important is you being present and you being healthy for the, for the kiddos and the family than anything else. And I think just allowing ourselves permission to say I can’t do it all. I’m not supposed to. That’s not my job. That is something that we have ingrained in us from years and years and years ago. Yeah. And this day and age things look a lot freaking different and so

Speaker 2 (31:50):

Yeah. A lot different. And I, I think like if I had one message to moms, it’s like, let yourself off the hook. Like you gotta let yourself off the hook because I don’t know who we’re comparing ourselves to. Like what generation supposedly did it better or who were more present. Like I would say the last generation maybe. Yeah. They probably weren’t on their phones. They didn’t have phones, they didn’t have the technology, but they also like ended up like my parents got divorced. People can only give so much. Like you cannot give 100% of your time. You can’t give 80% of your time to your kids without something. Something’s gotta give. And so like when I’m, if I’m like scrolling or something or like playing a wordle on my phone, like it’s okay. It’s okay. It’s a long game. It’s <laugh>, it’s the, I’m in it for the long haul. You know what I mean? So yeah. I think get the village.

Speaker 3 (32:49):

Yeah. Because we all need one. All of us. And there’s no badge of honor that goes along with doing it. All of ’em because we’re not meant to do this whole thing alone. No. And there’s just, you know, within motherhood, especially within the sobriety community, there’s so much, you know, there’s so much tension between the same people and the same team, but how you choose to do it co-parenting, you know? Yeah. It’s like the bottle versus breast and the co-sleeping versus not. It’s like,

Speaker 2 (33:16):

Oh my God, if your

Speaker 3 (33:17):

Kids are happy, like who cares? Like stop judging each other. There’s no room for this. This is, life is in motherhood is hard enough.

Speaker 2 (33:25):

Hard enough. It’s good enough. That’s my mothering philosophy. That’s like my life philosophy. Good enough. Like are they, do they feel loved? Are they clothed? Maybe not even clean, but they’re clothed. Like are they happy sometimes? Not all the time. <laugh>. Right. Good enough.

Speaker 3 (33:40):


Speaker 2 (33:41):

Like it just is. And for as a mom, that’s what, like when you talk about like being present, you know, just being there. That’s what they want. And so I think that moms don’t even realize that when you are like reaching for that glass of wine. And this is not a shaming thing. I’m never looking at moms and judging them for drinking. I’m just not. Because why wouldn’t they be drinking? They need an escape. Moms need help and they’re taught that that helps. And so of course, of course they’re drinking, but that does add an extra layer in between the mom and the child. It just does. That’s what alcohol does. It removes you from the situation, but not in a good way. Like it does, it doesn’t help, it makes a headache. It makes you more irritable, more anxious. All of this stuff that we need help with just makes it

Speaker 3 (34:31):

Worse. It does. Well and you know, when I ask people in my professional, you know, side of my career, I’m just like, you know, why do you drink? Why do you use, you know, because this can be our vice can be anything. It can be smoking, sex, gambling, nicotine, alcohol, coke, sugar, sugar’s, huge.

Speaker 2 (34:47):

Oh sugar me.

Speaker 3 (34:48):

It’s just like, why do you do what you do? Because how are you gonna change patterns that are destructive and are not serving you if you don’t know why you do it in the first place. Yeah. And I, I lost sight of why I was picking up. I just knew that I needed it. It feels good. Right, Right. You want that hit dopamine and it does the trick and that’s what it’s like. Okay. So you’re not drinking cuz you’re thirsty because you’re thirsty for things you can’t drink. And if you wanna go out on a 90 day, you know, heat wave and mow your lawn, you’re, you don’t need a corona. You need some water. Yeah. Or some Gatorade or something. Right. So you’re not doing it for any other reason than you wanna escape mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And you like the feeling of it being numb and shutting down because maybe you’re socially awkward or maybe you hate your boss and you have to go to a dinner party, you know, or a bridal shower you don’t wanna go to. And it’s like, that’s the reason that we’re even ingesting this to begin with. It’s, but it doesn’t do anything. It doesn’t make it more fun. You don’t karaoke any different, you just don’t care how you karaoke. Right.

Speaker 2 (35:58):

Totally. I’m, I karaoke better when I’m sober. I gotta say <laugh>.

Speaker 3 (36:02):

Yeah. But it’s like, it’s that thing of like, we care too much, we’re too anxious. Well, I didn’t take shots before job interviews when I was anxious, so how did I do it that time? Yeah. You know, I, if you get clear on why am I doing this? How is this serving me? Do I really need this? Am I trying to fit in? And you just ask yourself some of those simple questions. A lot of it just comes down to wanting to escape and the peer pressure of not wanting to be that one person that’s not

Speaker 2 (36:31):

Totally, And not wanting to feel the anxiety, the stress, the grief, anger, the frustration, the all of the things. You know what I, I had this thought while I was working out this morning and I was like, oh my god, there’s the word motion in emotion. Right? So like emotions move through us. There’s motion in emotions, which means it’s not gonna last any of those feelings. And I promise Michelle and I promise we have felt them all right. Yes. You have felt every single feeling sober. Now you’ve been sober for way longer than me. We have felt them all and we are still here. We’re we’re still standing, we’re still sober. Like did didn’t kill us. We did it. And you can too. Like you can feel those emotions and they will move right through you.

Speaker 3 (37:24):

They do. They don’t last forever. And that’s why I tell everybody, it’s like, just don’t drink right now when you’re upset. How about you call me an hour or sleep on it. Yeah. And then you can drink tomorrow. And they get up and they’re like, I don’t wanna drink. I’m so glad I didn’t drink last night. I’m like, see, you’re gonna hate me right now and tomorrow you’re gonna love me.

Speaker 2 (37:40):


Speaker 3 (37:41):

You know, because it does, it ebbs and it flows. And if we just sit in the discomfort, I know it’s uncomfortable and I know that there’s a lot of emotions, but it’s like those tools that we have, we can surf the urge to engage in self-destructive behavior. What we have the control over might just be sitting in the unknown of a silence, but reacting is just going to cause more problems. Right. It’s not gonna solve anything. It’s just gonna create a DUI or resentment or whatever else it could possibly do.

Speaker 2 (38:10):

Yeah. Or at the least like a headache <laugh>. You know what I mean? Even if it’s not like something horribly life changing, it’s like you’re gonna feel like shit and so you’re gonna have this Yeah. You’re gonna have this emotional turmoil and feel like shit physically. Like I, I I don’t mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I don’t want that.

Speaker 3 (38:28):

It’s so weird that those are some of the first things that we notice of like kinda like side effects of alcohol and it’s like, oh, that, that hangover really sucked. Right. And then it’s like people think they sleep better.

Speaker 2 (38:42):

Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (38:43):

You don’t, you pass out but you never get into rem sleep. And so you have anxiety, you have a migraine, you’re a headache, you haven’t slept well, you’re dehydrated

Speaker 2 (38:55):

Your skin. Like I cannot believe how much better. I thought my skin was pretty good. I mean I did, but the redness is gone. Like you don’t know it until you take that out. You don’t know any of this. Like, it’s almost like you just don’t give yourself a chance until you remove alcohol for an extended period of time. I would say like yes, that’s the thing with the 30 day things I love like dry July, you know, sober October, all of those things. But it does feel like they’re doing the hard thing over and over <laugh>. Like they are. Right. The first 30 days. I kind of think about it like someone who never runs more than two miles. There’s something that happens after you run two miles. You get, you finally get into like those first two miles of a run are horrible. They suck, they are awful. After those two miles you get into a groove, you kind of just like get into it and it’s so much better. But someone who doesn’t ever run long enough doesn’t get it. And so then these 30 day challenges, like I like that they’re introducing people to sobriety, but I’m like, you guys, you just keep doing the hard part over and over and you’re not reaping the full benefits.

Speaker 3 (40:06):

Absolutely. It’s like you said, it’s so nice to see, I don’t care why people are choosing to try it out and test drive it is what I call it. Yeah. But it’s like, just do it and see how your body feels. Because I can tell people all day long, I’ll hold up a mirror and I’ll tell you that what I’ve seen and what you’re showing and displaying, but until you believe it, you’re, it’s not sustainable until you think that you have a problematic relationship. So those challenges can be good in the sense of what this is doing is creating space in between you and your drug or your vice. Right? Yes. So when you think I can go seven days, let’s just, let’s do 14, I wanna push it and they get to day six and they’re like, I can’t do this.

Speaker 2 (40:47):


Speaker 3 (40:48):

They then realize this is harder than I thought it was. Yeah. I think I need to revisit my relationship with alcohol and that’s the gift that that can give you. So set something up and see if you can keep that promise to yourself. See if you can achieve that goal and, and keep going. Right. It’s like this thing of, it’s not even about motivation, it’s about discipline and you have to show up every single day. Small behaviors. I always, and I don’t know if this would, this makes sense to you if you’ve ever done it, but I’m like envision who you want to be. Totally right. Envision the, envision the Michelle of what does she look like? What, where does she vacation, What does she drink, What do I have to do every single day to be that person? Right. And so it’s hydrate my body. It is speak kindly to myself because I’m listening mm-hmm. <affirmative> and all of those other, Cause they all fall into that. I love the Atomic Habit book. I’m sure all of these people have read it.

Speaker 2 (41:51):

I have not read that yet. How have I not? I I always see it. I always, I’m like, Oh yeah, I need to read that. I I need to. Okay. It’s on the list.

Speaker 3 (41:59):

Do it please. It is probably one of the best personal development books that has struck me in a way that has changed my life forever. Oh good. Okay. And so that’s what we do with all daily habits is we just literally, if we do the same thing, little bit of a glass of wine at dinner and it, it just snowballs into a really amazing traits and behaviors in lifestyle. Or it does the opposite.

Speaker 2 (42:24):

Right. It’s either nourishing or it’s just gonna suck the life outta you. <laugh>.

Speaker 3 (42:28):

Yeah. And you don’t have to necessarily take things out of your daily routine. So if you wanna go, you know, if you’re not ready to cut out alcohol completely. I think sometimes it’s motivating for people, and this is what worked for me is I said, I’m gonna start by keeping a promise to myself and instead of consecutively having days, cause I just couldn’t string along a lot of days together. Yeah. I said, I’m gonna add something that, that future Michelle is going to benefit from. And that is hydration. I could drink three bottles of wine a night, but I could not fathom. And this was the heaviest part of my addiction. <laugh> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, it took me a while to get there, but so in the, in the mornings for 30 days, I would drink at least eight ounces of water and you wouldn’t believe that that was hard.

Speaker 2 (43:14):

Okay. In the morning, right when you wake up like before coffee or like with your cough. Before coffee.

Speaker 3 (43:20):

Before my c Cause then I’m just even more dehydrated because not even drinking, just waking up dehydrate. Totally. You feel dehydrated. But I did that. And so what I did was I noticed this behavior. I’m drinking my water. Oh. I kinda feel proud of myself.

Speaker 2 (43:36):


Speaker 3 (43:37):

I haven’t decided if I’m gonna drink or not, but I’m doing this and now I think the sun’s out. I’m gonna go check my mail. Now I’m moving my body. Yeah. That feels good. I’m starting to see the scale move in a different direction. I think I’m gonna take that salad over a slice of pizza and it starts to be like, well if I’m starting to do good things and I feel better and I’m seeing results, other areas of my life are gonna change and they’re gonna shift for the better. And that’s exactly how that aha moment that we were talking about at the beginning, that’s what like really kickstarted it for me is let’s add things that feel good instead of feeling like you’re coming from a place of like deprivation. Like, I feel deprived by you taking away my vice then let’s not right now.

Speaker 2 (44:24):

Yeah. That’s such a good, like shift in perspective too. And it’s, it’s those building blocks, it’s all about those building. Like, you don’t build anything in a day. You don’t, you don’t build good habits. You don’t, you don’t build sobriety in a like Yeah, I like that. I like that idea of the baby steps. Okay, so what’s your favorite mocktail? Are you into mocktails? Are you into na stuff? This is a question I get all the time and I’m just so boring with this stuff. So

Speaker 3 (44:49):

Yes, it’s, it’s, it’s very controversial in the sober community and the recovery community.

Speaker 2 (44:54):

So this is an AA thing that’s controversial, right? Is it strictly AA that’s like, no, it’s gonna trigger you and you can’t do it? Not only, Okay. No.

Speaker 3 (45:02):

Okay. I think it’s, it’s definitely, you know, it not alcoholic beverages are for people who don’t have a problem and are not alcoholics.

Speaker 2 (45:09):


Speaker 3 (45:09):

Is what you’ll hear a lot of people say. So why pretend to drink something that you’re not supposed to be doing? And does that lead to triggers? And is that just like imitating a lifestyle that you no longer live at? Okay. So there’s a lot of conversations around that. I think that with the sober curious movement, I think it’s been an amazing tool for a lot of people that say, I’m gonna do the same thing I do every night, which is have a beer with my husband watching the news. So what I’m gonna do is switch the beverage that I have out in my hand. And again, this is taking and moving one Yeah. One activity that I have a habit at daily, so I’m just swapping what I have. Yeah. I I’m still kind of imitating the same thing, but I’m taking these baby steps. I might drink two na drinks eventually you’re gonna be like, I don’t even need this anymore because it didn’t give me the buzz I was clearly looking for. Right.

Speaker 2 (46:00):

But also like the fact that there’s no ethanol, <laugh> is a plus <laugh>

Speaker 3 (46:05):

It it, that’s exactly right. It has the benefits and they have, they have gotten so good at like tailoring down the taste, the flavor that you can literally get a margarita that tastes the same way, even if it’s not a virgin one where they don’t put the liquor in, but they have all the replacements, the spirit replacements. Now where I wanna feel special and I wanna have chips and I wanna go out with my girlfriends and I wanna have a margarita. I’m, I’m willing to count these calories tonight because it makes me feel included. It makes me feel special. Yeah. I don’t need any other reason. As long as I’m not drinking booze and it makes me happy.

Speaker 2 (46:40):

Totally. I’m gonna

Speaker 3 (46:42):

Do it. So vacation, like I just got back from Hawaii and it’s like, okay, who doesn’t want a pina colada or a virgin boda? Right. So it’s just, yeah. Pull out the liquor heck of a lot cheaper. I don’t need the replacement, I don’t need the filler for it. Yeah. I just, you know, I just want to have the experience and it just, it felt that something I wanted to do and it was absolutely delicious. I have no regrets. I don’t have, I mean I get a lot of the stuff brought to me, so I keep it in some of my fridges outside, but you know, it’s like I’m fine with a mason jar full of tap water or infused fruits, you know, or diet coke once in a while.

Speaker 2 (47:20):

I know that’s me. Like my sparkling water, like all day long. That’s just what I’m drinking. And everyone’s like, Okay, do you have anything like more creative for a mocktail? I’m like, no. Cause I didn’t drink cocktails anyway. Like I was not a hard alcohol person. Like I don’t like what it tasted like anyway. So I just am not into mocktails. But that’s probably what I get asked most often. Like, what’s your favorite mocktail? I’m like, Sorry guys. <laugh>, I got nothing

Speaker 3 (47:47):

<laugh>. It’s, it’s hard. And I always have on rotation, I, you know, I always default to, what did you like to drink before? And just take the booze out of it. Yeah. But I’m like, I always have my peanut colada, my um, mojito. I have the club soda and lime cranberry and Sprite. I love the Arnold Palmers, the half tea half lemonade. Me,

Speaker 2 (48:10):

Me too. Have you tried the spin drift ones? Yes. Cause I have them right now downstairs. They’re so good. And they’re kind of light. Yes. Bubbly. Those are so good. Okay, so tell me about your coaching. Tell me about that. Like, so if, if somebody’s like, Hey I really wanna look at my drinking, I wanna work with Michelle, How does that work?

Speaker 3 (48:30):

Yeah, so, um, by day I, in Oregon, I’m an alcohol and drug counselor. So I’ve been doing that for a really long time. And so what I do virtually as a coach is literally just work with women that are virtual that have the desire to look at their relationship with alcohol and to really honestly meet them where they’re at. Again, it’s not tell them what they need to do or label them. It’s about why are you picking up? That’s the stuff that needs to be addressed. And I’m an ally, I’m somebody who is doing this just alongside of you that can see blinders. Yeah. That can help support you and the direction that you wanna go. And so I do that virtually with women and do private coaching

Speaker 2 (49:10):

So that they could do like a one-on-one session or okay. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (49:14):

<affirmative>. Yep. And then usually, I mean if depending on finances and investment, there’s, you know, there’s the coaching for longer term, which is usually what happens is they kind of like shift into that. Once they curated a plan and, and know that this is life changing and they’re seeing results, they’ll do that. I do have a bunch of workshops that I’m gonna be launching that are just around, oh, moms and how to get, how to parent better. Right? So that whole parental role, I have things on loving somebody who’s struggling with addiction, how to support people, um, you know, how to vacation sober and what that looks like. So there’s lots of just downloadable programs that are just like more tailored to whatever that current thing is. And a lot of people aren’t ready to have conversations out loud or talk on social media. So this is, I’m really trying to cater to the people like us that have small pockets of time that need something to download, to do independently when they have time to do it. So

Speaker 2 (50:15):


Speaker 3 (50:16):

If you can’t go to a meeting or you can’t go to a therapy meet, can you do it virtually? You know, or here’s a work packet to process and if you want to connect, let’s, let’s go over it in a one-on-one session. So I just want it to be accessible and I want it to be relatable to the people that I’m serving. And it’s just like podcasts. I think that’s the best tool to offer moms because they’re in the carpool line. Totally. They’re folding laundry, they’re cooking dinner. Take that 20 minutes that you have and freaking fill your head full of sobriety. Cause I promise you drinking will never be the same if you continue to stream the education, the science and the psychology around alcohol, you’re not gonna wanna drink eventually.

Speaker 2 (51:00):

That’s what did it for me. When people are like, Well how did you stop? I’m like, I literally just like listened to this naked mind and any quit lit and, and podcasts that I could get all day long. I had one AirPod in I think for the first three months of my sobriety and I was just like un brainwashing myself as I was going about my daily chores. And then, yeah, you can’t look at alcohol the same, you

Speaker 3 (51:23):

Can’t bet you were going to meetings is what you were essentially doing your own kind of meeting.

Speaker 2 (51:26):

I guess so, right? Yeah. Yep. I guess that’s what it is. Guys, we’re in a meeting, This is a meeting right now, <laugh>. Oh

Speaker 3 (51:36):

Good. It’s, and that’s, that’s the patchway that’s whatever works for you. And we don’t know until we test it out and we try things and then we’re just like, Oh, I guess this is working. Cuz I clearly haven’t thought about boo for three days or

Speaker 2 (51:47):

Three hours. Right. And now I do look at booze like a cigarette. Like when people are like, Don’t you crave it? I’m like, no. I like, just like I don’t crave a cigarette. Like I, I just really don’t, I I think I just deprogrammed myself from whatever the years of nonsense of saying that alcohol was the answer. Now I’m like, Oh, that was a big trick. Okay, now I’m up to speed.

Speaker 3 (52:07):

Exactly. And you’re on the other side of that. So like you were saying earlier where it’s like you, we only get through the hard parts when we continuously relapse. Yeah. It’s like, how many times do you wanna feel this way and you never have to feel this way again. If we continue to keep pushing through and if I told somebody you were gonna see results on week 10, would you stick with it? How hard would you fight for this? Because that’s what’s gonna happen. And for you, it and me, it’s like I see poison signs, I see statues. That’s what wine is to me because I see that my life is better without it. I see that no feeling lasts forever and feelings are not facts. But I couldn’t learn that until I push through the really hard parts of what it’s like to be a non-drinker at first. And then it just becomes, you’re so empowered, like you and I that it’s like, I’ll talk to anybody who wants to hear about how amazing I think it is to be sober

Speaker 2 (53:00):

<laugh>. Right, right. Yeah. We will talk to anybody. We’ll, we’ll just spread it out there. We have to, you have to. That that’s why it came to a point that I was like, Wait, doesn’t everyone know this? Like, I, I need to make sure everyone knows this. All moms know this. You know,

Speaker 3 (53:14):

It’s, it’s society’s hidden secret. And I I’m telling you it is like, like you said earlier, it’s the fountain of youth. It really, really is.

Speaker 2 (53:23):

It really is. You guys, all of this skincare stuff, and I love skincare, I love all that stuff. But like, you couldn’t be doing all of that. But if you’re gonna drink ethanol, like it’s gonna mess with it. It’s gonna come out of the, your pores, It’s gonna make, it’s gonna aid you, it’s gonna mess with your sleep.

Speaker 3 (53:40):

It literally is destroying our bodies from the inside out. And we think we have to wait until we have like cirrhosis or something horrible to like, Oh, now I have a reason I have to stop. Right. It’s like I used to think this isn’t affecting my health or my, like my complexion. Yeah. And then I realized, Michelle, when you pass out, you don’t brush your teeth. Right.

Speaker 2 (54:01):


Speaker 3 (54:02):

Don’t wash your face. You,

Speaker 2 (54:03):

You keep her eye makeup on. You keep your, Yes. I can’t tell you the last time I slept with makeup on, I just don’t do it because it’s my nightly routine. I have my, you know, like eight step nightly routine that I do. And it’s not hard when you’re not drunk.

Speaker 3 (54:19):

It’s not, it’s not. You were, it’s absolutely correct. It’s like you don’t need anything else. If you drinking the water and you’re washing your face and you’re getting, you’re getting rested. It’s like there’s nothing else. And teeth are important to me. And it’s like my teeth, I’m, I’m thinking, Oh, well the people I work with, you know, a lot of ’em struggle with methamphetamines. Well, it doesn’t, it’s just different. Yeah. You might lose your teeth in a different way with that substance. Yeah. But I’m gonna lose my teeth if I don’t floss and brush them.

Speaker 2 (54:45):

Right. It’s,

Speaker 3 (54:47):

It’s gonna be the same way.

Speaker 2 (54:48):

Yeah. That’s such a look into us not acting how we wanna act when we’re drinking and we’re acting outside of ourselves. And sobriety is really just like a coming home to yourself. And it’s like saying what you mean to say acting how you would always act. Like you can always count on yourself to do the things that you would normally do. Nothing’s gonna get in the way of that. Uh, I love this so much. I could talk about this forever. Um, okay. So tell everybody where we can find you, how they can sign up for your amazing courses, all of that.

Speaker 3 (55:22):

Yeah, so I, um, and recovery is a new black on all the social media platforms. I have a private Facebook group for women, um, again, that wanna explore their relationship with alcohol. And I love that that’s available so that we can have those conversations off a public Yes. Social media platform onto at least a private social media platform that I have so near and dear to my heart and regulate the heck out of it to keep it a very safe and sacred space for women.

Speaker 2 (55:46):

That’s great.

Speaker 3 (55:47):

And then I have the website, which are gonna have the, all the downloads on there and like the accessibility to coaching as well. I have a few books that are getting ready to come out by the end of this year. I’m so excited about. Oh,

Speaker 2 (55:59):

Oh my God, that’s so exciting.

Speaker 3 (56:02):

Depend on when this podcast launches or not. I mean, obviously it’s, So we’re in September now and this

Speaker 2 (56:07):

Is, it’ll be in like two weeks, so we’ll be, Yeah. Yay. I know.

Speaker 3 (56:11):

So it’s, um, you know, National Recovery Month, which I have a lot of things planned, a lot of speaking gigs. I’m gonna be on the road with Mobilized Recovery and some amazing lineups that are just like, we’re talking past presidents. We’re talking Gabby Bernstein. I don’t know how Michelle got involved in this, but I’m here for it.

Speaker 2 (56:29):

That’s amazing.

Speaker 3 (56:30):

So, um, there’s just like, you know, this movement of just, you know, Metas involved and Google and Microsoft and Boeing and Amazon, they’re all helping support this huge mission about ending the stigma around addiction. And it’s just like, these are the big players that are like, we’re here to support you guys.

Speaker 2 (56:49):

That’s amazing. Do you deserve it? Like, so inspiring. I I just love it so much. I’ll leave all of those links too in the show notes. You guys can just go to the show notes and click through there. Michelle, thank you so much. I feel like we know each other even better now, even though we’ve never met in real life. But hopefully one day we will.

Speaker 3 (57:07):


Speaker 2 (57:08):

Will. Yeah. We’ll have to for sure make it happen. Well, thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (57:12):

Yes. Thank you for all that you’re doing and spreading that message and that, that piece of awareness and education, because I know that you know this and I hope that you know this is that you have a huge impact as well.

Speaker 2 (57:23):

Thank you.

Speaker 3 (57:23):

People are here for it, so keep doing you regardless of whatever, anybody else, you know, all the things that we get with social media, it’s just, you know what our service is. It’s, it’s all about purpose over popularity and you have a mission and you have a voice and I’m very, very proud of you. I’m very like, rooting for you all the time, so I love you to pieces.

Speaker 2 (57:46):

Aw, thank you. I love you. Thank you so much. Okay guys. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Sober Mom Life. If you loved it, please rate and review it wherever you listen. Five stars is amazing. Also, follow me on Instagram at the sober mom life. Okay, I’ll see you next week. I’m gonna go reheat my coffee. Bye.

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